Doll Closet: Day Eight
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
Jesse Call-in Transcription
(timecode from Streaming Footage Part One)
AMBER: Good morning. Is it early for you?
JESSE: No, not really. It’s not bad.
AMBER: Oh hold on a second, I think one of the computers is playing audio of the Livestream.
JESSE: Oh that was probably me.
AMBER: Oh that was you? Could you—
JESSE: There we go.
AMBER: You got it? Ok.
AMBER: So how you doing today?
AMBER: Better? Better than yesterday? Was there something wrong yesterday?
JESSE: Yea, I uh…I’m feeling a little better. I was getting over a cold and stuff, and um, I guess my girlfriend’s daughter is sick now. She stayed home from school.
AMBER: Oh no, with the same thing, with a cold?
JESSE: Um, similar, but she says she has a fever and a sore throat, so. How’s it going there?
AMBER: It’s good, but you know here people got sick here, so it’s really that time of year I guess.
JESSE: Mm’hm. Must be.
AMBER: But so far we’re ok. I think I get sawdust in my face a little bit and that’s been making me, I don’t know, like clear my throat a bunch, but.
AMBER: But I don’t think I’m sick, sick. So that’s good news, but I’m sorry to hear that you were. I’m glad you’re feeling better.
AMBER: I got really far last night, so, uh I still have to finish the locking mechanism but it’s really straightforward. I just couldn’t tell from the video where—basically, I’m actually trying to think of how to even do this. I wondered if maybe I should take a picture and text it to you right now.
AMBER: Ok, so that’s what I’ll do.
JESSE: All right.
AMBER: I’m setting the phone down right now. Can you still hear me?
JESSE: Yea, a little bit.
AMBER: OK, I’ll just yell a little bit.
JESSE: I mean the farther you go away from it the harder it is to understand what you’re saying, but.
JESSE: The acoustics of the room.
AMBER: OK, I’m texting you a photo. I basically kept rewatching the very end of the video and I couldn’t tell where the 1/8th inch rod that goes into the lever of the locking mechanism, got drilled into because even at the end of the video it looked like there were only 2 holes: one for the top and one for the bottom of the rods, but I know there must be three I just couldn’t see if from that angle so I’m texting you a picture. It’s taking a while. Sometimes I have to walk to the other side of the room for a text to go through.
AMBER: Let me do that and I’ll be right back, ok?
JESSE: OK, I’ll just keep talking though. You remember me saying yesterday the top and the bottom rods, the lock rods, are going to be coming up from the bottom beneath the wheel and the lever that goes to the lock cylinder connects to the wheel from the top of the wheel. OK.
AMBER: So, ok, wait. I had to actually step outside the room in order to get that text to go through. So you said the top and the bottom are um, the top of the bottom rod goes to the top of the wheel and the lever rod goes on the top of the wheel?
AMBER: But how far should they be spaced out? I couldn’t tell that from the video either.
JESSE: That’s, that’s up, that’s why I said you’re just going to have to think about it. Ok, it looks like your lock cylinder is finally tightened into that piece of wood. Did that work out right?
AMBER: Oh yea, that worked out really well.
JESSE: OK, good. Um, you’ll have to imagine it looks like, let me think… so when you turn the, right now is the key slot vertical, straight up and down?
AMBER: No, right now it is…
JESSE: I mean, as far as the slot. Not the lever.
AMBER: I don’t know what you mean, the slot. But the lever—
JESSE: Where you put the key.
JESSE: Where you put the key in.
AMBER: Oh where I put the key in. where I put the key in is perpendicular to the two, 2 by four, so it’s up and down.
JESSE: Ok, vertical. Straight up and down at, at that position and your lever is at 3 o’clock position
AMBER: Yes, correct.
JESSE: So when you turn your key to the right your lever is going to be at the 12 o’clock position.
AMBER: Hold on, let me do that.
JESSE: Yea, I can see that’s what’s going to happen.
JESSE: Did you do it?
JESSE: OK, when you turn your key to the right, and that would the unlock position and the lever is at the 12 o’clock position then that’s going to turn your wheel 90 degrees counter-clockwise.
JESSE: And what you want to happen is for your top pin to be pulled down, and your bottom pin to be pulled up. And so…
AMBER: Sorry, why would the top pin pull down and the bottom pin pull up?
JESSE: That’s why there’s a wheel there.
AMBER: Oh, right. I mean I get that but—
JESSE: Because, because the lock cylinder itself couldn’t move both pins in opposing directions unless they were on a wheel and connected to opposite sides of the wheel.
AMBER: Right, but like—
JESSE: That’s why the wheel’s there.
AMBER: Sorry, I’m just thinking this through right now, is all.
AMBER: Yea, that makes sense to me. So, the question is though is like where to place all these things. It seems to me like they’ll be, the holes will be pretty close together—
JESSE: No, they’ll be, they’ll be um, at 3 spots on the wheel, each 90 degrees apart.
AMBER: Oh. That’s really helpful. So, ok, so it will be at 12 o’clock, 3 o’clock, and 6 o’clock.
JESSE: I’m thinking, as you look at with the lock pins, the top and the bottom lock rods to the wheel, they’re at 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock. And then the, I’m sorry, did I say the—it doesn’t…from, well to back up a little bit, your bottom rod looks like it needs to be moved over about a half inch. To the right.
JESSE: So that it lines up to the side of the wheel. It looks like it’s more towards the middle of the wheel.
AMBER: I don’t think so.
AMBER: Maybe it’s just your angle, but I’ll take a look at that.
JESSE: It looks like, yea it’s got to be in a straight line to the right side of your wheel. And the top rod has to be in a straight line to the left side of the wheel. But you know, about a quarter inch from the edge of the wheel actually. So ¾ of an inch from the center, probably.
AMBER: Yea, I think it’s right. But I’ll take a second look.
JESSE: OK. Um, then go ahead and fasten, without even worrying about what position the lock cylinder is in right now, we’re not even going to worry about the lock lever right now, what you need to do is drill a whole, not too close to the edge, but like I said, you know about a quarter of an inch from the edge, or ¾ of an inch from the center of the wheel, you have to take the wheel back off to do this, by the way. It will be easier to drill and then drill a hole on, it doesn’t matter where you put the hole, just put your other whole completely on the opposite side of the wheel.
JESSE: For the other rod.
JESSE: I’ve got to clear my throat. Hold on a second. Yea, it’s getting over a cold still so my voice is a little raspy this morning. I went and visited my stepmom. It’s her birthday today, so.
AMBER: Is it the same stepmom who broke her leg?
JESSE: Yes, and I was talking with them and my voice, I started kind of started loosing my voice a little bit. So, once you get that, you’ll get the top rod on the left side of the wheel, and the bottom rod connects to the right side of the wheel and then when you get that done manually turn the wheel with your hand and see that the lock pins do indeed go in, you know, pull down or pull up.
JESSE: Pull back from their locked position. And then we can go ahead and fasten the lever on the from the key cylinder and make sure in the open position with the key turned to the right, make sure that it turns the wheel counter-clockwise about 90 degrees. So that’s all you’ll have to do is when the lock pins are out and they’re both at the left and right side of the wheel, you know what I mean?
AMBER: So when the top and the bottom are across from each other on the wheel, and then I manually turn the wheel counterclockwise to ensure that the rods are moving properly—
AMBER: That’s when I determine where the rod that is connected to the lever will go?
JESSE: Right, but that’s what I’m getting at now is in the lock position with the pins out, where they would be connected into the two by fours, then the top and the bottom rods connected to the wheel will be in a straight line across from each other, as you’re sitting looking at it now, I think it would be too—if you’re looking at it from the bottom of the door, they would be on the left and the right. You don’t want them to be on the top and the bottom. They have to be on the left and the right of the wheel.
AMBER: Yea. That makes sense to me. I have that correct.
JESSE: Ok, good. And then, what you need to do is um…I’m not sure mine actually is at 12 o’clock. You got your 9 o’clock, your top rod at 9 o’clock and your bottom rod at 3 o’clock, and then I think my lever going to the lock cylinder is actually around 2 o’clock. It was going to fasten very closet to where the one for the bottom rod goes into, but you don’t want to drill those holes too close together obviously because you don’t want to break that wheel.
AMBER: Right. Well, why don’t I just do the top and bottom and then I think it will be a lot easier for me to figure out where the lever goes. So, I feel really good about that. And then, when that is all working properly I use the angle grinder to make sure that the rods protruding from the 2x2 frame on the top and bottom are an inch, um, past and I sharpen them so they can go into the holes of the 2x4 that I’ll drill?
AMBER: And then I will adhere the nipples with the bearings using the method that you showed me with the brackets.
JESSE: And another thing I was thinking about that is it will be pretty easy for you to at least do the bottom the way I originally intended, the bottom hole that you drill with hole saw for that nest for the bearing to sit in, don’t go all the way the 2x4 with that one because you want the door to, you want the door to have something to sit upon so it doesn’t go down to far.
JESSE: And the top one I don’t care if you drill all the way through. And it would be easier and a lot quicker just to drill it all the way through.
AMBER: For the top of the 2x4 where the bearing will be?
JESSE: Yea, you just need since gravity’s hold it down, I mean nothing’s going to push the door up, you don’t really have to have that, you don’t have to make a nest out of it, you can just make a hole.
AMBER: So how far would you go in to the 2x4 on the bottom?
JESSE: As thick as what the bearing is, it’s probably, maybe a half inch.
AMBER: Yea, I think it’s—it looks like maybe ¾ of an inch but I’ll measure that, do the tape method on the—
JESSE: On the hole saw.
AMBER: That you taught me. So, that will be great and then—
JESSE: Then chisel it out, yea.
AMBER: The other thing is, I suppose I should drill the plywood further into the 2x4. Right now it’s just on 4 drywall screws, but I should probably add a couple more, right?
JESSE: You should go ahead and do that because I think you have enough time, yea. I mean, I think that things are going along pretty smoothly now. Yea, I would go ahead and do that to make that a little stronger. And to me, seeing it here on the video screen it looks to me like that plywood might be a little bit warped. It’s not as thick as I thought and I’m hoping the door won’t be too flimsy, but yea I think if you get some more screws in it, it should stiffen it up a little bit.
AMBER: Yea, I think, yea that will help. Um, so that is all making sense so basically it’s like I’ll finish the locking mechanism and then the door is done. Then I’m going to, I had to glue back in the mistake hole so I have to sand that down. And then can we talk a little bit about the knot of wood?
AMBER: So, I went to the hardware store and I got all of the things I need. The nylon bushings, or spacers and then um, I also got the nut that corresponds to the you know whatever, the way that you pull the knot out. The guy at the hardware store helped me pick out the correct nut.
JESSE: Did you get two of them?
JESSE: Oh. Yea, it’s alright.
AMBER: Was I supposed to get two of them?
JESSE: Yea, but it’d be actually harder because if you don’t have them exactly lined up together when you glue them in, then it can be hard to get screw in. So, one is fine, as long as you can—you just have to drill on the opposite side of the nut, drill down just low enough with a bigger bit, big enough just to set that nut down in the knot and then superglue it in.
AMBER: Ok, so that’s pretty straightforward.
JESSE: Yea. And just don’t get any superglue on the threads because you don’t want your bolt to stick in there.
AMBER: OK. Um, so that that will go in and um…
JESSE: And you can tap that nut into the hole once you get it drilled with another drill bit probably. Just push it down in there and it should fit pretty snug.
AMBER: It’s actually pretty close right now from the hole saw.
JESSE: Ok, well start with the, you know, just like the next size up bit or just step up a little at a time so you don’t go any, any bigger around then what the size of that nut is because you don’t want it be loose. You want it to be able to press into the wood.
AMBER: Ok, well then yea. Yea, basically I’m going to work on the locking mechanism, finish that, then I’m going to flip the door over and use drywall screws to adhere it a little tighter, the 2x2 frame to the plywood, then I’m going to put the 2x4 frame into the doorway with drywall screws. Then I’m going to use the angle grinder to grind off the rods at the tops and bottoms so only an inch protrudes and I’ll make it sharp. And then I’ll hold the door up to the 2x2 frame—or no, I shouldn’t do that, I shouldn’t put the 2x2 frame into the doorway. I should test it on the ground, right?
JESSE: I would, yea.
AMBER: So then I’ll do all that stuff where I put a hole into the 2x2, or the 2x4 frame on the top and bottom for the rods and I use the hole saw just to go in a half an inch or ¾ of an inch at the bottom on the hinge side and all the way through at the top. And then I’ll put the 2x4 frame into the doorway and I’ll install the door, and then I’ll paint the wall. And then I’ll put the trim up.
JESSE: That sounds good.
AMBER: Oh my gosh, did you ever think I would get this far?
JESSE: I was kind of worried that things like the locking mechanism, but yea, that came out, that came together pretty well yesterday. And I don’t know why it seemed like it was too short that you couldn’t get the nut on it. It looks like you got that figured out, so.
AMBER: Yea, well I took your advice and used that spade bit and just a little more, I mean, honestly ideally I would have more thread to work with so that the washer could go further through. The washer is just there protecting that piece with the ears.
JESSE: Right and that’s what sticks into the wood.
AMBER: Yea, but it’s not actually onto any of the thread so it just is there. And it’s working that way but obviously that’s not idea.
JESSE: Did you get it really tight with a wrench? You know tighten that nut down really tight.
AMBER: It um…I did not use a wrench. But I used a screwdriver because it’s a Phillips head.
JESSE: I’m talking about the nut that holds the cylinder into the wood.
JESSE: If you tighten that with a crescent wrench really tight, to get that washer to bite into the wood, then your cylinder won’t turn.
AMBER: Ok. Well, I’ll work on that too.
JESSE: Yea. Because you don’t want that to turn, it will mess up your, you know you won’t really know when you’re turning the cylinder, if the key turns the cylinder too far you won’t, you know you could actually jam up the rods and you won’t—if your wheel turns too far, your rods can get kinked. That’s all I’m saying. So you want that cylinder to be tight in the hole that it’s in and you don’t want it to move at all.
AMBER: So which one would I use for that?
JESSE: The crescent wrench. For that nut that holds the cylinder into the wood.
AMBER: All right. Well, I feel pretty good about the tasks at hand. How are you feeling that we’re at the last day now?
JESSE: Good now.
AMBER: Yea. About the door itself and then how about all these conversations we’ve been having. Is there anything that you want to add on the last day?
JESSE: Uh, I don’t know. We’ll see how it goes. I read some of the transcripts yesterday and I, I tend to stumble with words that I’m trying to pick out exactly what I’m going to say, and then when I finally figure it out then it just flows and then I don’t quit talking. And Davecat is like, in his transcription, he really just flows when he’s talking and he doesn’t really stop to think, you know. I just, he’s a lot more articulate at words than I am and I just. I mean, when I’m writing I can write really well, but when I’m speaking live it’s just hard for me to think about what I’m saying and I have to stop and think about what word I want to use. And by the way, you know, I uh, that’s what I was telling Davecat that I was really worried I was going to say something that was just too stupid or you know, didn’t make sense or whatever, and you and Davecat kind of both make me feel comfortable about it, so. (23:30) Whatever I said and stuff about the, you said that you don’t use that term cross-dressing in your community because it’s more um, I don’t know, its more accepted or something in New York, I don’t know, but yea, I feel ok with what I said. I mean…
AMBER: Oh yea.
JESSE: I’m still anonymous, but its just one of those things that people need to be aware that there’s a lot more people out there that have these sort of issues that are not quote unquote normal. And you know, I don’t think there’s a person out there that’s really normal, so that’s just a laugh anyway when someone says I’m weird or normal or whatever. There is no such thing as normality.
AMBER: I agree, and just to back up slightly, I also take a long time to talk live and think a lot about what I’m about to say before I say it, so you’ll notice in the transcriptions there’s just as many pauses in my part so I hadn’t noticed that about you at all.
AMBER: But I think when we read back our own words, we always feel something one way or the other--
AMBER: That our performance, and then the other thing is I did just want to clarify that cross-dressing comment on my side is that its just a word that doesn’t come up much in my community. I don’t mean to put a value judgment on it’s use. But it’s not, it’s not a word that I encounter much in my community of Queers in New York. So I just want to underline that wasn’t with any judgment or hierarchy whatsoever. And I’m glad you brought that up.
JESSE: Good. Well, I didn’t take it as anything other than you just don’t, that they just don’t really use that word. Apparently I don’t know, like I said, I don’t know if it’s because it’s just more accepted and people don’t speak of it as cross-dressing because it’s just whatever you want to wear you where. Or, what did you mean by that?
AMBER: Yea, I think it doesn’t come up as a word in my community partly because as Queers, a little bit what you just said, right, people are presenting their gender in whatever way feels comfortable to them and they are accepted for that preference, for that identity, for that presentation, for who they are generally and tends to shift even among individuals. So, right, not just—
AMBER: Well, I guess what I want to say is there’s a wide range of gender in my community and even within individuals there’s a wide range. Gender is always shifting in my friends, right? And so, so yea, I guess that word doesn’t come up very much. I also end up hanging out, you know, certainly the people that I date tend to be transmasculine and so their identity is really different from the way you’re describing you know, wearing women’s clothes sometimes and not identifying as transfeminine, for example. I tend to hang out with, like basically the people that I date um, people who identify male right, and uh, who were assigned female at birth perhaps. So that gender is really different from what you’re describing, but I wonder how you would respond to thinking about those other identifications and where you might fit in that spectrum?
JESSE: Um, I would I guess, I don’t really fit into any sort of um, transgendered or homosexual or anything like that because mine is just, like a fantasy type thing and I would never give up my masculinity. I mean I have brought it to my own thoughts, just to see what I would think about it if I ever would have a sex change or want to become female and you know I did kind of think about a little more seriously probably when my wife and I weren’t getting along and I was just so into getting away by myself and having some clothes and stuff somewhere out on a country road, like I told you.
JESSE: Somewhere secluded. And you know as I thought about I really came to the conclusion that I really wouldn’t want to give up my masculinity and who I am now, it’s just if I did become a woman, if I became a female than the fantasy would be gone and it would be reality. And so with the way I am now, if I choose to have that fantasy I can live it for awhile and then go back to being a man and having my same normal routine and my life and working on cars and you know doing whatever a man does. So I would really never want to be apart from what I am, it’s just the fantasy is there if I want it. And so I would never go as far as making a transformation because honestly I have had some you know some nails glued on and I had a phase once where I spent as long as I could dressed as female and with my nails long and everything and when I became bored being in the house and I thought, well I want to go out into the garage and get something or do something, or whatever it was, and I had to throw some gloves on and throw on a big winter coat and stuff—I kind of disguised what I had on underneath, I had to have gloves on so no one could see that I had nails on—but, I came to the realization that when I was out in the garage I lost a nail or a I skinned up my polish or whatever, I’m just not careful, I’m just rough. So there’s another thing, I’d rather just have the fantasy from time to time and not really go that far to be fulltime because I’m just careless and you have to be really careful, like you just pointed out when you scuffed up your nail polish and stuff during this project, so it’s not really something that I would want fulltime. I don’t know if that answers your questions, or…?
AMBER: Yea, I’m definitely interested in what you just shared and I keep thinking about this project in relation right, so I was assigned female at birth, I identify female, I identify as a Queer fat femme, I have bright pink nail polish on and it’s been fun to scuff it up. And I tend to scuff it up when I do Olympic and powerlifting which is something I really enjoy doing so I really enjoy as part of my gender you know, the range that includes this kind of femme presentation and also what it sounds like you would describe as more masculine tasks, right.
AMBER: so I enjoy all sides of that in one container so that’s my response to what you just shared, again not as a judgment of what you just said, just in thinking about how it translates to my own identity.
JESSE: And to expand on what I said that I don’t, you know I know my own sexuality, I’m not at all homosexual, it’s just the fantasy of feeling female. If anything, I am a lesbian in a man’s body. That’s what I am I think.
AMBER: Yea. Can you say that again? You’re a lesbian in a man’s body? Is that what you said?
JESSE: Yea, because I don’t, I love women and feminism, I mean female, anything female is so beautiful and so alluring to me, and I, I’m definitely a man underneath at all, like I said, I don’t identify at all as homosexual, it’s just that you know I like feminine things so if anything I’m a lesbian in a man’s body.
AMBER: I remember when we were doing that chat on ODC that we were recording, and you mentioned that you wanted to be reincarnated as a hot lesbian.
AMBER: And then I think I said I want to meet you in that lifetime.
AMBER: Um, so what would, I’m just going to ask a question that you can feel free to not respond to. It’s maybe a little personal, but I’m wondering if you’ve ever pursued I don’t know, this feels funny to ask you because we haven’t talked about sex together, but um, have you ever felt interested in dressing in the high heels that you described, and with the fingernails that you described and making out with your girlfriend, for example?
JESSE: I have heard about that happening and I actually thought no, that’s not really, because to me I am a man and that’s all she knows and so even if she did say that it was ok, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it because I think that would change her perception of me totally and it might make things a little weird or worse down the road, I don’t know.
AMBER: Well, maybe not her but somebody that was excited about the fact that you know you would be dressed in that way and you would be enjoying being dressed in that way.
JESSE: Yea, I don’t know. For me it’s just a fantasy for myself, I think. And it would be a little embarrassing I think.
AMBER: I understand.
JESSE: I think it would be hard to really hard to get used to. And it’s just I guess because I really don’t you know as far as porn goes, I never really did get into seeing two women. I mean, it’s ok and I can understand it, but it’s not, I’d rather see penetration of something real, you know?
AMBER: Oh my gosh, speaking of porn then if we’re going to go there, I’m super into porn where there’s either a transmasculine person and a kind of like, fat femme, and there’s penetration that way, or where there are two women fucking each other with dicks.
JESSE: Yea? Strap on?
AMBER: Yea. It’s so weird to talk to you about this, but I am into that, so since we’re talking about penetration, I’m super into seeing penetration, but not with what I think you’re describing.
JESSE: Well, what’s weird about that is that you asked uh, if I’d ever thought about sex as being dressed as a female and not that she’s ever said anything about me playing a female role or anything, but actually I don’t know, she may have alluded to it. She said that she had some gay porn, some men on a video. And I said, ‘Why would you have that? And she goes, ‘I don’t know,’ She said, ‘I like to watch it.’
JESSE: And I said why would you want to and she goes because I get it. Two, you know, at least they have something to penetrate and two men can actually have sex, two women can’t. And I said, ‘No, I can understand two women better than two men.’ And she’s uh, when we first started seeing each other she said she was going to surprise me and just pop it in one day and we’d have to sit there and watch it. And I said, ‘I don’t want to see it. I really don’t.’ And she’s all the time talking about putting something in my ass or something and I said, I don’t, I don’t really want to go there.
AMBER: Yea. I mean, that’s fair. You don’t have to go places you don’t want to go. But I think it’s really common for women to be into gay male porn.
JESSE: I don’t know. I, that’s uh, only the second time I’ve heard about it, so.
AMBER: She sounds quite open-minded in general.
JESSE: She is, and over the last, over the last few days she’s complaining because you know we haven’t had sex enough and it’s because you know she’s been sick and then I got sick. I don’t know She said, ‘It used to be every other day, or every day.’ I says, ‘I know, but you know…’ Um, actually when we were in New York it was just very stressful and we had a two room suite and her daughter slept on the other side of the door.
JESSE: And that made it hard so um.. Yea she’s really kind of, really kind of complaining that she isn’t getting it enough. And I complain, or I didn’t complain I was bragging to one of my friends at work that I get it every night. And I said, ‘I’m not kidding you, I’m telling you every single night we’re together.’ And he couldn’t believe that I was serious.
AMBER: Is it because that is not the reality for him?
JESSE: No, he’s been trying for, as long as I’ve been talking to him he’s been trying to find a girl and most of them, they like to hang out with him because he’s fun and they laugh and they have a good time and usually he pays for their dinner and their drinks and I think that’s all it is. But he’s gotten lucky maybe once every couple weeks or once every month or whatever and then he’ll come and tell me about it. It’s just funny.
AMBER: Yea, and then your report is a daily report.
JESSE: Right and I try not to go on and on about it but—and like I said here lately she’s been reminding me that I’ve been slipping a little bit. (Laughs)
AMBER: That’s funny. It’s also funny because you’re so…like, hearing that you talk about sex with the coworker doesn’t surprise me but I just see you being so sort of protective of Rhiannon at Dollstock so I wondered if you might be the kind of person who would just not at all go there. You know? Like, have a lot of privacy around your sex life with your girlfriend at work.
JESSE: Yea, I don’t talk to anybody about it but this one guy. He’s just, he’s just all sex. I mean it’s all he wants to do is talk about the—and he tells everybody too, there was a time where everybody was playing euchre at work and I don’t play cards but I’m sitting off at a table by myself with my computer and stuff and you know, whatever I do on the laptop and stuff, and they’re over there playing cards and my friend starting talking about his escapades and it usually is an embarrassing story. It usually, by the time he gets this long drawn out story about how the evening went it ends up he either didn’t get lucky or she, he played with her boobs and that’s it, or I don’t know. He’s always going on about all these things that’s embarrassing and then everybody will just laugh and I mean he’s just so unlucky, but he just keeps trying. You would think that he would give up but he doesn’t.
AMBER: Yea. Do you consider him a friend, or do you get turned off by the stories?
JESSE: No, he’s a good friend of mine, and it’s just funny because I like to laugh. He’ll tell me all his bad luck and stuff and it just, I have to laugh but you know, and that’s what I mean, that’s why I don’t want to brag too much because I don’t want him to not like to talk to me anymore because he’s fun to be around.
AMBER: Right, right, right.
JESSE: But as far as being protective and stuff, I think all men talk about their sexcapades and stuff but I don’t really. Like I said, I don’t tell everybody, I just tell him because you know, he’s just fun.
AMBER: Yea. Would he be open to hearing about dolls do you think?
JESSE: Uh, maybe.
AMBER: Yea. It’s funny because I don’t think of—I mean, we’ve talked about this at length, but I also don’t think of our community’s relationship to their dolls as particularly sexual, so I don’t know that it even makes sense in that context except that someone like him maybe really into the fact that they’re designed for sex, or penetrable in 3 orifices.
JESSE: Uh, I asked one of my friends years ago when I first bought Heather, I brought up the subject that they were making life-size dolls and I said, I said if you had a chance to get one, and said if you had one, would you have sex with it? And he said, “oh yea, probably.’ And then I just dropped it. I just kind of laughed. I thought, I was thinking to myself, well, I got one.
AMBER: You know for a time period when I was in transition between Chicago and New York my father had Amber Doll?
JESSE: No, I didn’t know that.
AMBER: Uh, yea I wasn’t sure if I told you or not, so anyway he’s always been really involved in my art work and followed along, and you know he lives in a small town in Iowa. And he’s just a rebellious guy in a lot of ways, and had fun with Amber Doll by dressing her in a witch’s costume and then putting her in the living room facing out and so just kind of used her as this decoration. But then he started joking with me that he was going to rent her out.
AMBER: And um, I still feel a little disturbed by it that it was even a joke. But you know she’s just never even been, or she was never penetrated.
JESSE: I was wondering about that.
AMBER: Yea. Um, my friend, Ollie Rodriguez, who’s another artist that I was in graduate school with, who was close also to Barbara DeGenevieve who this performance is dedicated to.
JESSE: And that’s the one who you went to the funeral and then the memorial to in Chicago?
JESSE: Oh, yea, I’m sorry to hear about that again. She…OK.
AMBER: Ollie was a good friend at the time that, and still is but certainly we were close and living in the same city when I got Amber Doll, and he did fist Amber Doll at that wedding reception performance that we did, but um, I didn’t know about it until years later, so now whenever I see him that’s all that I can think about.
AMBER: Yea. He put his whole fist in her.
JESSE: That’s bad. Well, some of the video that I’ve seen on your blog or somewhere, where, I don’t know, at the tailgate party or wherever? Where the guys were just really humping on her and stuff and I thought the one guy was actually trying to put something in her mouth. I don’t know. I thought, that’s you know those guys, I don’t know if you knew any of them, but they were pretty rude.
AMBER: Oh, I know. That was a lot of what happened with Amber Doll during those early performances. She was pretty violently explored for sure and I’ve thought a lot about that recently especially since Tilikum is such a big part of my life and yea. I don’t know, this week has been so interesting because for the most part we’ve spoken in the mornings and then I’ve had the afternoon to build and sometimes my mind is really focused on the task and that’s all I’m kind of able to handle, but other times I think about our conversation and just about I don’t know I guess our different relationships to gender and my what feels like deep understanding of where you’re from, having come from somewhere so similar and some of my feelings of isolation in the Queer community in New York, but feeling really aligned with the politics there and um, thinking more about the closet as a metaphor the way that you’ve interpreted it, the way that we’ve interpreted it together and then some of what it brings up for me personally and then I’ve been thinking a lot about Barbara who this performance is dedicated to partly because we met when I was 24 and I was making out with women like at nightclubs but I was definitely stumbling out as Queer. Like really interested in coming out in particular and didn’t really know how to do that and felt really naïve to um, I don’t know I guess some of the etiquette involved to the Queer community in Chicago where I was living at the time. And uh, you know I’d been involved with a woman in my sorority at Delta, Delta, Delta in the 90s and it still just took so very long.
AMBER: I would say partly coming from where I came from in Iowa and not really understanding, even though I was so liberal, politically rather as it relates to LGBTQ stuff, um, it’s still just didn’t feel like an option for me and I’ve been thinking about that time and it’s just about a decade of me being out as Queer.
AMBER: And understanding my gender in this very femme and fat way and really thinking a lot about who I’ve dated over these ten years and how important these relationships have been since most of them have transitioned to important friendships and yea, I’ve just had a lot of reflecting time as I’ve been learning how to use power saws.
AMBER: I was thinking about if there’s anything whatsoever that is left in any kind of metaphorical closet of mine. Mostly because I’m really interested in what can flourish in secrecy. You know that was some of what I was interested in writing about when we were going over the text for the performance. So I wonder what you thought about—I just talked for a long time—so I wonder if there’s anything you want to pick up on from that or just the concept of like, though, I think there’s like such an emphasis on outness in, certainly in my community and I’m wondering what you think might be some of the advantages or the sexiness or the appeal of some of the secrecy that involved with the closet
JESSE: Yea, I was, uh, I’ll back up a little bit. I was looking at your pictures on face book, and one of the pictures of the pink room with the doll closet door, someone commented that it was creepier than she imagined or something like that.
JESSE: I just wondered if—hold on, I’ve got to get my other phone. This one’s going to die again. I just wondered if—let me take my recorder with me.
JESSE: If the overall attitude about that doll closet being in the same house that my wife and I both lived in and I just wondered if the overall consensus was that it was creepy that it was right under my wife’s nose. Maybe you can expand on that or maybe I’m totally wrong about it, I don’t know.
AMBER: Yea, I think that some of the, yea, and I think you saw that I commented after that and said I don't find it creepy at all, that it’s really amazing to me and I think it’s really special and there’s something charged in the exciting way that you described being on stage in your old high school, that like, kind of thrilling thing is something that I connect to pretty deeply, so I felt that even being in the doll closet room and imagining that she was there. I don't think that, I don’t know and it would be great if we were on some kind of radio show to have her call in, right?
AMBER: And describe what she thought was creepy. I don’t, I suspect knowing her that it’s not the secrecy as it relates to your wife but instead the realness of the real dolls, right so the fact that that doll especially back in the 90s looked so much like a real woman, like an organic, and so I think some of the creepiness is the thought that something that resembles a human form so closely was living in captivity.
JESSE: Right. That’s exactly what I was just thinking she meant, but on the other hand it was, you know, I probably more than anybody um, realized that it’s just a fantasy and that, you know, I have thought about the doll having some sort of soul maybe but out of anybody that I know in the community, I think I’m one of the ones that doesn’t take it so literally and it’s just to me it’s just a mannequin, other than, well, Heather especially was just a mannequin.
JESSE: But, but, I’m going to back up a little and say that Rhiannon is a lot more than just a mannequin to me now since she’s so much more realistic and beautiful. But, the idea that I had just an object that looked like a woman, yea it was kind of weird maybe that, you might say captivity, but it’s not really a living being, so it’s not really captive. To me it was just in, it was a way to keep me from wanting to venture out away from my wife and to try to keep my desires in check and so that is a little more sane than, than what it seems on the outside to somebody, thinking that oh, he wanted the best of both worlds. Well, wasn’t really like that. I mean I wasn’t really, the real doll wasn’t real enough, there’s no doll in the world that’s going to be as realistic or beautiful as a real woman. So, it was just a fantasy or a way for me to explore my own sexuality without leaving the confines of my, or the, the relationship with my wife.
JESSE: So that’s how I would explain to her if I was talking to her directly. It was not really creepy, it was something a little more sane than what most men do. Because most men, well I don’t know what the statistic really is but most men that have an extramarital something or other, whether it be a doll or some cross-dressing fantasy life, they go out and actually have relationships with other people when they’re still married. I think that what I did was a little better than cheating on my wife with a real person because then, you know that would be a lot more hurtful.
AMBER: Yea, I think that some of the, well let’s just keep talking about that creepy comment—but some of the, in those moments I think that there’s the combination of you know the history of, really even just 2 major recent news stories of fathers locking their daughters pretty literally in secret areas of their homes. And, the generally held misconceptions about doll owners being misogynists wanting to fuck something that doesn’t talk back.
AMBER: Right, and so I think those moments where it feels creepy you know there’s also the color pink that makes it look like a little girls room, you know I do think that, I think all of those really powerful charged misconceptions come together um, in that one image that we were talking about just now that was called creepy. But also I’m thinking about the doll closet generally in this performance and some of what interested me in working with you was you know, I know and like you very much, and I know that all of the things that even my friends but a general audience would assume about you and doll owners generally people who choose not to be out about aspects of their sexuality, or aspects of their lives, people who choose to have some secrecy in something that is dear to them, yea I guess I just feel excited that our conversations may have shed some light on people making pre-judgments.
JESSE: Right, I hope so. And one of the other things about the picture was the left side of the door that goes to the room, the white paint, and there’s a lot of like dirty handprints or dirty, the side or the edge of the door is kind of dirty.
JESSE: And it, it was always like that because we never painted that room, since we bought this house. We never did anything to that room. It’s still the same pink from the teenage daughter that lived in there and the door was never cleaned off it was just left that way because we didn’t really have anything to do, it was just a spare bedroom or a place to put extra junk or whatever and so yea, that kind of looks a little creep too, it looks like maybe the house was an unkempt house or whatever stuff too. But you know, that’s just that one room up there.
AMBER: Well, you know, I’m glad that it looks creepy to people, and I know for a fact that it isn’t. And I enjoy being in there and I feel excited about one of the ideas we had earlier in the week which was to put a small piece of Heather into the doll closet before you drywall it out. So she can be there in some way and the other thing I feel excited about kind of in this category that we’re touching on now is that so many other doll owners have contributed images of their doll closets, or you know, I’m using that term but other people just talk about the space where they keep their dolls.
AMBER: So I feel happy that there’s a number of spaces where dolls are kept represented in this project and uh…yea I don't know I’m just interested to allow this work to be a vehicle for your self-representation and for the community generally so I hope that it’s felt that way to you, but let me know, what do you think?
JESSE: Well, I don't’ know if you think of me as such but I’m not really a spokesman for the whole doll community or anything—
JESSE: And like I said, I’m not really as into the doll life as some are and um, my story is just one of many different kinds of people that own dolls, but yea of all the guys that I’ve met so far there’s not been that I could tell I men, there’s not really one creepy person. You know it’s just I think people think we’re just all a bunch of lunatics that can’t get along in society so we buy dolls because we can’t have relationships. That’s not true.
AMBER: Yea. And certainly that’s proven wrong by the mere fact that we all have such strong relationships with each other.
JESSE: Yea, and I knew of at least one, and I don’t know if you knew this but I know you know his name but I don’t need to say it but he’s got a girlfriend also and she doesn’t know about his doll, so.
JESSE: There’s more of us out there that have actual relationships, but we just have another side of us that want you know, something else to work with. So…
AMBER: Yea and often that something else to work with is non-sexual. And has to do with projection of self on doll, or has to do with you know, some of what we’ve talked about at length, an interest in being the doll or dressing like the doll or having the opportunity to buy clothing and accessories for a doll so getting the experience of shopping for shoes on Ebay without um, without out doing it in a way that makes you feel comfortable, right? Like…
JESSE: Yea. Yea, I’ve had a little outlet by doing some searches for shoes and stuff, I mean that, I really have sat here on my laptop for hours, I mean I’ve sat here a couple nights in a row when I felt the need when I wanted some shoes for the doll or myself, I sat here for 4 hours probably two nights in a row deciding what shoes I wanted and trying to find the right ones on Ebay or you know or brand new shoes, which some of them are pretty expensive and some of them are decent reasonable and at one time I thought, I had the money and I was going to buy some nice pretty expensive shoes for what they were going to be used for, for Rhiannon. I wanted to buy something from Gwen Stefani’s collection, or one of the top, top or higher end designers that—
AMBER: Wait, sorry to stop you. But that Gwen Stefani, um, the Lamb line?
AMBER: Oh my gosh, I like that Lamb line.
JESSE: Mm’hm. And I thought, you know I had the money at the time and I thought it would be really cool to have some of her shoes, not to, again, not that I would tell anybody unless maybe you came around to Dollstock or something and said, ‘Wow, those are Lamb shoes.’ Yea? But, yea, they’re like 300 dollars or more, some of them.
AMBER: Yea. Um, do you have buy yourself matching shoes with Rhiannon, like I used to do with Amber Doll?
AMBER: You do?
AMBER: Do you have any that you want to share a picture of?
JESSE: Um, I don’t know if that, what, like not right now I don’t. I don’t even have pictures but the ones that she was shipped in um, the little purple sandal prom shoes that she was shipped in I bought a pair like that and obviously the strap around the heel wasn’t long enough so I had to buy another pair just to cut the strap off and superglue it to the other one just so it was long enough.
AMBER: You’re so good at building things.
JESSE: But yea, I mean it, it wasn’t the same thing. Some of that stuff I thought would be really fun and cool, but I was disappointed. So yea these little prom shoes and whatever, it, it’s best kept to Rhiannon because it’s just you know, like I said it’s for my eyes only but it’s not, it wasn’t as fun as I thought it would be. So a lot of that stuff I keep for a few years and never play with it again, I just throw it out or whatever.
AMBER: I know what you mean because when I first got Amber Doll there were things that I thought would feel really powerful or fulfilling about our relationship or about items you know, kind of objects that would exist between us, and some of them, I don’t know it surprised me what was and wasn’t after all.
AMBER: Yea. But I would love to see if you were able to today, and wanted to share, a picture of the shoes you know, um, that match.
AMBER: Obviously that’s up to you. I don’t want to push you in anyway, but I’m curious you could also just send it to me if you didn’t want them to be shared.
AMBER: But I wondered if that was the case mostly because I get it. I get, I get it to the extent that it’s possible um, the projection to self on doll you know having gone through it with Amber Doll and having had those issues myself.
JESSE: Yea, it’s kind of fun, um, yea I have a bunch of different shoes that maybe I’ll get out. You know, if I don’t send them today I’ll send them to you.
AMBER: Well, gosh I have so much building to do today but I’ve been enjoying chatting with you from the beginning of the stream instead of an hour into it today.
AMBER: Is there anything you want to add because you’re going to get off to work, and I'm going to get off to building and even if we’re able to Facetime briefly with questions, I just want to make sure that if there’s anything you wanted to add for this performance, you know we’ve had 8 conversations now, anything hat we’re forgetting to say?
JESSE: Um, I don’t think so, but you know it comes to mind something that I said last year for the Lolita project is one of the things was um, and I noticed this of most of the other, I mean all of the doll owners that I’ve experienced at some of the meets we were at, we all take such care, and we have fun dressing them up and brushing the hair and mine has real eyebrows so I have to smooth out the eyebrows and eyelashes and all this stuff is something that um, like you said when I was talking to you on the phone last year that it’s a sign that we are, we’re caring and we want something that we can take care of or love, or I can’t remember what you said, not relish but—
JESSE: It wasn’t even cherish. (Groans) But the word that you picked, it summed it up. You know, something beautiful, something, I can’t even think of it right now but just to sum it all up, most doll owners have a doll mostly because they want something beautiful to take care of and the word escapes me but, my point is, contrary to what people think, we’re not just a bunch of heathens jumping on a rubber doll or something because that’s not what most of the guys I’ve experienced are like, at all.
JESSE: So, if anything comes from this, I hope that maybe people see that there is, there’s a need that’s being addressed, a need that we have as far as loving and taking care of something—oh wow, the word was just there, and now it’s gone. You’ll probably find it.
AMBER: Yea, I can find it from going through last year’s footage for sure.
JESSE: Yea. And there’s that need where for whatever reason most of these guys don’t have, most of us in this community don’t have that in our lives where they’re actually taking care of something and I guess, to sum, to, to, make one more reference to my wife when she was in the hospital, when she was dying and I turned to my dad and when we both realized when she was on her death bed that she needed me more than ever, she wanted me right there to the very end, and I had tears in my eyes, and I said to my dad, I said, all these years that we were apart and we weren’t close, my wife and I, I said all I ever wanted was for her to want me and lean on me to want me to take care of her and I finally got to do that. And, I think that’s what’s missing in a lot of people’s lives and that’s why they choose to have a doll rather than a total relationship.
AMBER: And how would you summarize why you have a doll?
AMBER: We’ve been talking for 8 days about this and there’s a lot of reasons and a lot of nuance to it, but if you were to have the chance just to sum it up, what would you say?
JESSE: Well, usually when you sum something up you make one generalized point about it and I can’t because there’s more than one reason. There’s the fact that I use a doll to project my fantasy life or my desire to have or to dress in or to even look at lingerie on a body and you know, just the nice feminine things, I like that stuff, I like to take care of it, I like to take attention to detail either when I put it on, or when I put it on a doll, and more often now since I have Rhiannon I’m dressing a doll and I just living like you said I’m projecting my fantasy on to her and it’s more fulfilling to see it in front of me than it is just to see it from my eyes on my body. ‘Cause I don’t like looking in the mirror when, if I’m dressed up, I just like to see it on a body. Or, you know, there’s that, or like I said there’s just said the caring, and the taking care of something, and the…just being able to take care of something precious I think is the word you said.
AMBER: Precious. That makes sense.
JESSE: And as far as sex goes I think to me that’s the least of any of it so because for me it’s just not really that exciting. You know, sex with a doll, but I mean, there is that if I want that. So having a doll is like three of things. Well, there’s like there’s the sexualness of it, and there’s the fantasy of being able to project myself on it, and then there’s the care aspect of wanting to take care of something precious.
AMBER: Yea, and then can I ask a clarifying question about seeing the lingerie on a body? Is it specifically a body that represents you?
JESSE: I think so. And like I said I don’t look in a mirror, and I don't want anybody, it’s not what--if and when I would dress up, it’s not that I think I look good or I want people to see it, or you know like I said I did have one picture that was blurry that actually looked like I was a female. That’s when I was just playing around when I bought a new camera and I thought ‘what if” but, no, for seeing like long legs and when I used to shave and do my toenails and whatever, I mean, from my eyes and from my perspective I was seeing what a female sees, and that’s the closest I can get to being a female without actually going all the way, you know. And I didn’t want to go all the way, I still like being who I am, so, uh, that’s what I meant, projecting that onto her where—
AMBER: And I know you were saying at one point at Dollstock that uh, Rhiannon is kind of your ideal. Right, so like--
AMBER: So if you were to be a woman, it would be her that you would choose to be.
JESSE: It would just be so cool if in the future we could put all of our sensory, all of our perception and all you know, our 5 senses if we could put them somehow onto a doll, and live as that doll. I mean, not really, kind of, it would be really neat.
AMBER: It would be really neat. You know what’s so funny I’m reminded that a couple months ago, I have a good friend Tina Zavitsanos who is another artist, and um, we talk a lot about each of our work, and on the same night we had dreams that involved each other, and her dream that involved me, I hope she doesn’t mind me sharing this but she’s talked about it publically at a dinner party so, I’m going to go for it. She dreamed that basically like she was inside of my body as, kind of like a game, right, kind of like a video game and she was cruising the halls of her high school, you know it was her mind and—
AMBER: Being, but inside of my body. And um, my dream was basically that I was laying on top of her and I was being hypnotized and there was more to it that I don’t recall at this moment, but it was a pretty long and specific dream, so it felt like—
JESSE: That’s weird.
AMBER: We connected in dream space. And I thought a lot about, it’s so funny that you bring this up today because I thought a lot about her dream right, when we talked about putting cameras in Rhiannon’s eyes.
AMBER: Yea, I think that’s a fantasy or an idea that um, is charged for a lot of us. That seems interesting to a lot of us and not just in a Sci-fi way.
JESSE: That’s really wild that it happened at the same time, you were both thinking about it and maybe, maybe you were abducted by aliens than actually put through that. (Amber laughs) I don’t know.
AMBER: Are you teasing?
JESSE: Maybe. Who knows? No one knows everything, so. My sister was telling me a story about when she was growing up she woke up in the middle of the night and her-- no her sister said she saw it, my half-sister said she saw three guys hovering above her bed but all you could see were their faces.
JESSE: And, she told her, my sister about it later and my sister started remembering something that she was repressing from her childhood and she said she remembers somewhere that she wasn’t supposed to be, in the middle of the night.
AMBER: This is your sister and your half sister talking.
JESSE: Yes. So you know I never doubt stuff because no one knows for sure.
AMBER: Yea. Wow, was that in Ohio?
JESSE: Yes. And as a matter of fact, the same town that they grew up in just recently had a UFO sighting.
AMBER: I think that—
JESSE: A couple of weeks ago.
AMBER: I’m sorry, I’m kind of interrupting here, but I just feel excited coming from another corn state, isn’t there some statistic about how the highest number of sightings, or the highest number of sightings of UFOs or uh, anything extraterrestrial come from corn states?
JESSE: Yea. And I think I heard that the gist was that there, the people that are reporting these have no lives and they’re just a bunch of hillbillies seeing UFOs. And I thought that was funny too.
AMBER: Well, I don’t consider you a hillbilly, and I don’t consider myself a hillbilly—
JESSE: No, but—
AMBER: And we’re both from um…
JESSE: Maybe the word was redneck. I don’t know. ‘Cause there is probably a difference between hillbillies and rednecks but it just all kind of meant the same thing. Whoever said it was slamming the people who were seeing UFOs in those states.
AMBER: Well, as people from those states, I don’t know, I have no comment but I’m just so thrilled that we’ve been able to talk the way we have to the extent that we have all week.
JESSE: Yea, me too.
AMBER: Yea, and uh, it seems like a funny place to land on, to land on—
AMBER: Corn states. But it’s a bonding thing.
JESSE: Yea, I just uh, I don’t know, I don’t doubt anything anymore, but yea, I’ll believe about anything. But uh, maybe that’s what they meant, whoever said that, made that comment because they think we’re all naïve but yea, anyway.
AMBER: So now what’s your day like, you’re feeling a little better, you’re going to head to work.
AMBER: You’re maybe going to before work head up to the bins and grab those purple shoes if you can.
AMBER: And then, I don’t know, is it possible--what do you think you’re day will be like if I have some major question, would you be open to some text messages?
JESSE: Definitely. Yesterday I didn't’ have to do anything so…
AMBER: Awesome. Oh yea, you had that Christmas dinner, how was that?
JESSE: Oh, it was pretty bad.
JESSE: Well, every year and you know it's a big company that I work for, so every year they usually have a band in the cafeteria, and it’s a big cafeteria, they have a band over in the corner, playing Christmas songs and they have Christmas dinner catered in and it was, you know you get your fill and it was good and there was a lot of you know, fellowship and everyone’s sitting in the cafeteria talking to each other, you sit and talk to people that you hardly even know or you haven’t seen in awhile. Um, last night when they designated the time for our department to go, there were maybe 15 people up there in the cafeteria and there was no band.
JESSE: And they just played piped in Christmas music, Frank Sinatra and some oldies and stuff and on the video screens, because the cafeteria kind of doubles as a conference room, part of it anyway, on the big screens they had a laptop hooked up to each one of the screens with a fire, a virtual fire on each one of the screens, so…
AMBER: What did you think of that? I kind of like those, but…
JESSE: Yea, but when I went to get some more, they, they had some Styrofoam cups that were only half full of punch or lemonade or ice tea, when I went up to get another ice tea I walked past one of those screens and I put my hands up and rubbed them together like I was feeling the warmth. And the catering company let you put everything that you want on your plate except for the meat. When it came to the meat at the end of the table, they had a server there placing whatever piece of meat, or whatever size, or whatever amount they wanted to give you so you didn’t go overboard. And they only let you take one piece of pie, and it was just a disappointment. I mean, it was good enough tasting food, but instead of a salad this year we got coleslaw, so, yea, they, and everybody sat in corners and…
AMBER: Yea. Well, from what you described of last year and years prior it does sound a little different. Was it still barbeque chicken?
AMBER: Oh. That sounds good.
JESSE: And a little bit of barbeque pork.
JESSE: But years ago I was told that the talented people that were in bands and whatever, they would load them up on a wagon, and pull them all through the plant um, on one of those electric Cushmans, pull the wagon on one of those Cushman carts and they would stop at every one of the assembly lines and plug in and they would play some Christmas music.
AMBER: That’s cool.
JESSE: Yea. They used to do that and now they don’t do that, they just hire a band in and they all stay up in the cafeteria. And they, they have some volunteers from the, whatever shift you’re on will be Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus and this year they just walked around and passed out candy canes and yea.
AMBER: Yea, so a little different.
JESSE: More and more disappointing.
AMBER: Well, two different holiday get togethers, or work dinners in the last ten days, right?
JESSE: Yea. One was departmental, and the other one was plant-wide.
AMBER: Yea, so now those are done and your birthday’s done and today’s the last day of the performance.
AMBER: And we’ll definitely stay in touch like we always do but…
AMBER: But have a good day in the meantime and I don't know, I feel a little—
AMBER: Well, there’s still a lot to do, but um, I just um, I don’t know we’ve been in this kind of this alternate reality that is Doll Closet, the performance and we’re almost to the other side, so…
AMBER: We’ll have to text each other through it.
JESSE: OK. Yea, I’ll definitely be there if you need me, so.
AMBER: All right.
JESSE: Yea, I was surprised that the Facetime worked because you have to have Wi-Fi for that to work and apparently, one of the departments that I’m close to has wireless and even though I didn't have a password for it, it still worked, so I was surprised.
AMBER: That’s awesome. Well, that’s really good news because that was really great yesterday.
JESSE: Yea, it, it lost connection a couple times, but it was helpful.
AMBER: Yea, totally, and it’s fun to see your face.
AMBER: All right, well have a good day, Jesse. We’ll talk soon.
JESSE: All right. Good luck.
AMBER: Thanks, bye.