Doll Closet: Day Eight
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
Jesse Call-in Transcription
(timecode from Streaming Footage Part One)
AMBER: Good morning. Is it early for you?
JESSE: No, not really. It’s not bad.
AMBER: Oh hold on a second, I think one of the computers is playing audio of the Livestream.
JESSE: Oh that was probably me.
AMBER: Oh that was you? Could you—
JESSE: There we go.
AMBER: You got it? Ok.
AMBER: So how you doing today?
AMBER: Better? Better than yesterday? Was there something wrong yesterday?
JESSE: Yea, I uh…I’m feeling a little better. I was getting over a cold and stuff, and um, I guess my girlfriend’s daughter is sick now. She stayed home from school.
AMBER: Oh no, with the same thing, with a cold?
JESSE: Um, similar, but she says she has a fever and a sore throat, so. How’s it going there?
AMBER: It’s good, but you know here people got sick here, so it’s really that time of year I guess.
JESSE: Mm’hm. Must be.
AMBER: But so far we’re ok. I think I get sawdust in my face a little bit and that’s been making me, I don’t know, like clear my throat a bunch, but.
AMBER: But I don’t think I’m sick, sick. So that’s good news, but I’m sorry to hear that you were. I’m glad you’re feeling better.
AMBER: I got really far last night, so, uh I still have to finish the locking mechanism but it’s really straightforward. I just couldn’t tell from the video where—basically, I’m actually trying to think of how to even do this. I wondered if maybe I should take a picture and text it to you right now.
AMBER: Ok, so that’s what I’ll do.
JESSE: All right.
AMBER: I’m setting the phone down right now. Can you still hear me?
JESSE: Yea, a little bit.
AMBER: OK, I’ll just yell a little bit.
JESSE: I mean the farther you go away from it the harder it is to understand what you’re saying, but.
JESSE: The acoustics of the room.
AMBER: OK, I’m texting you a photo. I basically kept rewatching the very end of the video and I couldn’t tell where the 1/8th inch rod that goes into the lever of the locking mechanism, got drilled into because even at the end of the video it looked like there were only 2 holes: one for the top and one for the bottom of the rods, but I know there must be three I just couldn’t see if from that angle so I’m texting you a picture. It’s taking a while. Sometimes I have to walk to the other side of the room for a text to go through.
AMBER: Let me do that and I’ll be right back, ok?
JESSE: OK, I’ll just keep talking though. You remember me saying yesterday the top and the bottom rods, the lock rods, are going to be coming up from the bottom beneath the wheel and the lever that goes to the lock cylinder connects to the wheel from the top of the wheel. OK.
AMBER: So, ok, wait. I had to actually step outside the room in order to get that text to go through. So you said the top and the bottom are um, the top of the bottom rod goes to the top of the wheel and the lever rod goes on the top of the wheel?
AMBER: But how far should they be spaced out? I couldn’t tell that from the video either.
JESSE: That’s, that’s up, that’s why I said you’re just going to have to think about it. Ok, it looks like your lock cylinder is finally tightened into that piece of wood. Did that work out right?
AMBER: Oh yea, that worked out really well.
JESSE: OK, good. Um, you’ll have to imagine it looks like, let me think… so when you turn the, right now is the key slot vertical, straight up and down?
AMBER: No, right now it is…
JESSE: I mean, as far as the slot. Not the lever.
AMBER: I don’t know what you mean, the slot. But the lever—
JESSE: Where you put the key.
JESSE: Where you put the key in.
AMBER: Oh where I put the key in. where I put the key in is perpendicular to the two, 2 by four, so it’s up and down.
JESSE: Ok, vertical. Straight up and down at, at that position and your lever is at 3 o’clock position
AMBER: Yes, correct.
JESSE: So when you turn your key to the right your lever is going to be at the 12 o’clock position.
AMBER: Hold on, let me do that.
JESSE: Yea, I can see that’s what’s going to happen.
JESSE: Did you do it?
JESSE: OK, when you turn your key to the right, and that would the unlock position and the lever is at the 12 o’clock position then that’s going to turn your wheel 90 degrees counter-clockwise.
JESSE: And what you want to happen is for your top pin to be pulled down, and your bottom pin to be pulled up. And so…
AMBER: Sorry, why would the top pin pull down and the bottom pin pull up?
JESSE: That’s why there’s a wheel there.
AMBER: Oh, right. I mean I get that but—
JESSE: Because, because the lock cylinder itself couldn’t move both pins in opposing directions unless they were on a wheel and connected to opposite sides of the wheel.
AMBER: Right, but like—
JESSE: That’s why the wheel’s there.
AMBER: Sorry, I’m just thinking this through right now, is all.
AMBER: Yea, that makes sense to me. So, the question is though is like where to place all these things. It seems to me like they’ll be, the holes will be pretty close together—
JESSE: No, they’ll be, they’ll be um, at 3 spots on the wheel, each 90 degrees apart.
AMBER: Oh. That’s really helpful. So, ok, so it will be at 12 o’clock, 3 o’clock, and 6 o’clock.
JESSE: I’m thinking, as you look at with the lock pins, the top and the bottom lock rods to the wheel, they’re at 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock. And then the, I’m sorry, did I say the—it doesn’t…from, well to back up a little bit, your bottom rod looks like it needs to be moved over about a half inch. To the right.
JESSE: So that it lines up to the side of the wheel. It looks like it’s more towards the middle of the wheel.
AMBER: I don’t think so.
AMBER: Maybe it’s just your angle, but I’ll take a look at that.
JESSE: It looks like, yea it’s got to be in a straight line to the right side of your wheel. And the top rod has to be in a straight line to the left side of the wheel. But you know, about a quarter inch from the edge of the wheel actually. So ¾ of an inch from the center, probably.
AMBER: Yea, I think it’s right. But I’ll take a second look.
JESSE: OK. Um, then go ahead and fasten, without even worrying about what position the lock cylinder is in right now, we’re not even going to worry about the lock lever right now, what you need to do is drill a whole, not too close to the edge, but like I said, you know about a quarter of an inch from the edge, or ¾ of an inch from the center of the wheel, you have to take the wheel back off to do this, by the way. It will be easier to drill and then drill a hole on, it doesn’t matter where you put the hole, just put your other whole completely on the opposite side of the wheel.
JESSE: For the other rod.
JESSE: I’ve got to clear my throat. Hold on a second. Yea, it’s getting over a cold still so my voice is a little raspy this morning. I went and visited my stepmom. It’s her birthday today, so.
AMBER: Is it the same stepmom who broke her leg?
JESSE: Yes, and I was talking with them and my voice, I started kind of started loosing my voice a little bit. So, once you get that, you’ll get the top rod on the left side of the wheel, and the bottom rod connects to the right side of the wheel and then when you get that done manually turn the wheel with your hand and see that the lock pins do indeed go in, you know, pull down or pull up.
JESSE: Pull back from their locked position. And then we can go ahead and fasten the lever on the from the key cylinder and make sure in the open position with the key turned to the right, make sure that it turns the wheel counter-clockwise about 90 degrees. So that’s all you’ll have to do is when the lock pins are out and they’re both at the left and right side of the wheel, you know what I mean?
AMBER: So when the top and the bottom are across from each other on the wheel, and then I manually turn the wheel counterclockwise to ensure that the rods are moving properly—
AMBER: That’s when I determine where the rod that is connected to the lever will go?
JESSE: Right, but that’s what I’m getting at now is in the lock position with the pins out, where they would be connected into the two by fours, then the top and the bottom rods connected to the wheel will be in a straight line across from each other, as you’re sitting looking at it now, I think it would be too—if you’re looking at it from the bottom of the door, they would be on the left and the right. You don’t want them to be on the top and the bottom. They have to be on the left and the right of the wheel.
AMBER: Yea. That makes sense to me. I have that correct.
JESSE: Ok, good. And then, what you need to do is um…I’m not sure mine actually is at 12 o’clock. You got your 9 o’clock, your top rod at 9 o’clock and your bottom rod at 3 o’clock, and then I think my lever going to the lock cylinder is actually around 2 o’clock. It was going to fasten very closet to where the one for the bottom rod goes into, but you don’t want to drill those holes too close together obviously because you don’t want to break that wheel.
AMBER: Right. Well, why don’t I just do the top and bottom and then I think it will be a lot easier for me to figure out where the lever goes. So, I feel really good about that. And then, when that is all working properly I use the angle grinder to make sure that the rods protruding from the 2x2 frame on the top and bottom are an inch, um, past and I sharpen them so they can go into the holes of the 2x4 that I’ll drill?
AMBER: And then I will adhere the nipples with the bearings using the method that you showed me with the brackets.
JESSE: And another thing I was thinking about that is it will be pretty easy for you to at least do the bottom the way I originally intended, the bottom hole that you drill with hole saw for that nest for the bearing to sit in, don’t go all the way the 2x4 with that one because you want the door to, you want the door to have something to sit upon so it doesn’t go down to far.
JESSE: And the top one I don’t care if you drill all the way through. And it would be easier and a lot quicker just to drill it all the way through.
AMBER: For the top of the 2x4 where the bearing will be?
JESSE: Yea, you just need since gravity’s hold it down, I mean nothing’s going to push the door up, you don’t really have to have that, you don’t have to make a nest out of it, you can just make a hole.
AMBER: So how far would you go in to the 2x4 on the bottom?
JESSE: As thick as what the bearing is, it’s probably, maybe a half inch.
AMBER: Yea, I think it’s—it looks like maybe ¾ of an inch but I’ll measure that, do the tape method on the—
JESSE: On the hole saw.
AMBER: That you taught me. So, that will be great and then—
JESSE: Then chisel it out, yea.
AMBER: The other thing is, I suppose I should drill the plywood further into the 2x4. Right now it’s just on 4 drywall screws, but I should probably add a couple more, right?
JESSE: You should go ahead and do that because I think you have enough time, yea. I mean, I think that things are going along pretty smoothly now. Yea, I would go ahead and do that to make that a little stronger. And to me, seeing it here on the video screen it looks to me like that plywood might be a little bit warped. It’s not as thick as I thought and I’m hoping the door won’t be too flimsy, but yea I think if you get some more screws in it, it should stiffen it up a little bit.
AMBER: Yea, I think, yea that will help. Um, so that is all making sense so basically it’s like I’ll finish the locking mechanism and then the door is done. Then I’m going to, I had to glue back in the mistake hole so I have to sand that down. And then can we talk a little bit about the knot of wood?
AMBER: So, I went to the hardware store and I got all of the things I need. The nylon bushings, or spacers and then um, I also got the nut that corresponds to the you know whatever, the way that you pull the knot out. The guy at the hardware store helped me pick out the correct nut.
JESSE: Did you get two of them?
JESSE: Oh. Yea, it’s alright.
AMBER: Was I supposed to get two of them?
JESSE: Yea, but it’d be actually harder because if you don’t have them exactly lined up together when you glue them in, then it can be hard to get screw in. So, one is fine, as long as you can—you just have to drill on the opposite side of the nut, drill down just low enough with a bigger bit, big enough just to set that nut down in the knot and then superglue it in.
AMBER: Ok, so that’s pretty straightforward.
JESSE: Yea. And just don’t get any superglue on the threads because you don’t want your bolt to stick in there.
AMBER: OK. Um, so that that will go in and um…
JESSE: And you can tap that nut into the hole once you get it drilled with another drill bit probably. Just push it down in there and it should fit pretty snug.
AMBER: It’s actually pretty close right now from the hole saw.
JESSE: Ok, well start with the, you know, just like the next size up bit or just step up a little at a time so you don’t go any, any bigger around then what the size of that nut is because you don’t want it be loose. You want it to be able to press into the wood.
AMBER: Ok, well then yea. Yea, basically I’m going to work on the locking mechanism, finish that, then I’m going to flip the door over and use drywall screws to adhere it a little tighter, the 2x2 frame to the plywood, then I’m going to put the 2x4 frame into the doorway with drywall screws. Then I’m going to use the angle grinder to grind off the rods at the tops and bottoms so only an inch protrudes and I’ll make it sharp. And then I’ll hold the door up to the 2x2 frame—or no, I shouldn’t do that, I shouldn’t put the 2x2 frame into the doorway. I should test it on the ground, right?
JESSE: I would, yea.
AMBER: So then I’ll do all that stuff where I put a hole into the 2x2, or the 2x4 frame on the top and bottom for the rods and I use the hole saw just to go in a half an inch or ¾ of an inch at the bottom on the hinge side and all the way through at the top. And then I’ll put the 2x4 frame into the doorway and I’ll install the door, and then I’ll paint the wall. And then I’ll put the trim up.
JESSE: That sounds good.
AMBER: Oh my gosh, did you ever think I would get this far?
JESSE: I was kind of worried that things like the locking mechanism, but yea, that came out, that came together pretty well yesterday. And I don’t know why it seemed like it was too short that you couldn’t get the nut on it. It looks like you got that figured out, so.
AMBER: Yea, well I took your advice and used that spade bit and just a little more, I mean, honestly ideally I would have more thread to work with so that the washer could go further through. The washer is just there protecting that piece with the ears.
JESSE: Right and that’s what sticks into the wood.
AMBER: Yea, but it’s not actually onto any of the thread so it just is there. And it’s working that way but obviously that’s not idea.
JESSE: Did you get it really tight with a wrench? You know tighten that nut down really tight.
AMBER: It um…I did not use a wrench. But I used a screwdriver because it’s a Phillips head.
JESSE: I’m talking about the nut that holds the cylinder into the wood.
JESSE: If you tighten that with a crescent wrench really tight, to get that washer to bite into the wood, then your cylinder won’t turn.
AMBER: Ok. Well, I’ll work on that too.
JESSE: Yea. Because you don’t want that to turn, it will mess up your, you know you won’t really know when you’re turning the cylinder, if the key turns the cylinder too far you won’t, you know you could actually jam up the rods and you won’t—if your wheel turns too far, your rods can get kinked. That’s all I’m saying. So you want that cylinder to be tight in the hole that it’s in and you don’t want it to move at all.
AMBER: So which one would I use for that?
JESSE: The crescent wrench. For that nut that holds the cylinder into the wood.
AMBER: All right. Well, I feel pretty good about the tasks at hand. How are you feeling that we’re at the last day now?
JESSE: Good now.
AMBER: Yea. About the door itself and then how about all these conversations we’ve been having. Is there anything that you want to add on the last day?
JESSE: Uh, I don’t know. We’ll see how it goes. I read some of the transcripts yesterday and I, I tend to stumble with words that I’m trying to pick out exactly what I’m going to say, and then when I finally figure it out then it just flows and then I don’t quit talking. And Davecat is like, in his transcription, he really just flows when he’s talking and he doesn’t really stop to think, you know. I just, he’s a lot more articulate at words than I am and I just. I mean, when I’m writing I can write really well, but when I’m speaking live it’s just hard for me to think about what I’m saying and I have to stop and think about what word I want to use. And by the way, you know, I uh, that’s what I was telling Davecat that I was really worried I was going to say something that was just too stupid or you know, didn’t make sense or whatever, and you and Davecat kind of both make me feel comfortable about it, so. (23:30) Whatever I said and stuff about the, you said that you don’t use that term cross-dressing in your community because it’s more um, I don’t know, its more accepted or something in New York, I don’t know, but yea, I feel ok with what I said. I mean…
AMBER: Oh yea.
JESSE: I’m still anonymous, but its just one of those things that people need to be aware that there’s a lot more people out there that have these sort of issues that are not quote unquote normal. And you know, I don’t think there’s a person out there that’s really normal, so that’s just a laugh anyway when someone says I’m weird or normal or whatever. There is no such thing as normality.
AMBER: I agree, and just to back up slightly, I also take a long time to talk live and think a lot about what I’m about to say before I say it, so you’ll notice in the transcriptions there’s just as many pauses in my part so I hadn’t noticed that about you at all.
AMBER: But I think when we read back our own words, we always feel something one way or the other--
AMBER: That our performance, and then the other thing is I did just want to clarify that cross-dressing comment on my side is that its just a word that doesn’t come up much in my community. I don’t mean to put a value judgment on it’s use. But it’s not, it’s not a word that I encounter much in my community of Queers in New York. So I just want to underline that wasn’t with any judgment or hierarchy whatsoever. And I’m glad you brought that up.
JESSE: Good. Well, I didn’t take it as anything other than you just don’t, that they just don’t really use that word. Apparently I don’t know, like I said, I don’t know if it’s because it’s just more accepted and people don’t speak of it as cross-dressing because it’s just whatever you want to wear you where. Or, what did you mean by that?
AMBER: Yea, I think it doesn’t come up as a word in my community partly because as Queers, a little bit what you just said, right, people are presenting their gender in whatever way feels comfortable to them and they are accepted for that preference, for that identity, for that presentation, for who they are generally and tends to shift even among individuals. So, right, not just—
AMBER: Well, I guess what I want to say is there’s a wide range of gender in my community and even within individuals there’s a wide range. Gender is always shifting in my friends, right? And so, so yea, I guess that word doesn’t come up very much. I also end up hanging out, you know, certainly the people that I date tend to be transmasculine and so their identity is really different from the way you’re describing you know, wearing women’s clothes sometimes and not identifying as transfeminine, for example. I tend to hang out with, like basically the people that I date um, people who identify male right, and uh, who were assigned female at birth perhaps. So that gender is really different from what you’re describing, but I wonder how you would respond to thinking about those other identifications and where you might fit in that spectrum?
JESSE: Um, I would I guess, I don’t really fit into any sort of um, transgendered or homosexual or anything like that because mine is just, like a fantasy type thing and I would never give up my masculinity. I mean I have brought it to my own thoughts, just to see what I would think about it if I ever would have a sex change or want to become female and you know I did kind of think about a little more seriously probably when my wife and I weren’t getting along and I was just so into getting away by myself and having some clothes and stuff somewhere out on a country road, like I told you.
JESSE: Somewhere secluded. And you know as I thought about I really came to the conclusion that I really wouldn’t want to give up my masculinity and who I am now, it’s just if I did become a woman, if I became a female than the fantasy would be gone and it would be reality. And so with the way I am now, if I choose to have that fantasy I can live it for awhile and then go back to being a man and having my same normal routine and my life and working on cars and you know doing whatever a man does. So I would really never want to be apart from what I am, it’s just the fantasy is there if I want it. And so I would never go as far as making a transformation because honestly I have had some you know some nails glued on and I had a phase once where I spent as long as I could dressed as female and with my nails long and everything and when I became bored being in the house and I thought, well I want to go out into the garage and get something or do something, or whatever it was, and I had to throw some gloves on and throw on a big winter coat and stuff—I kind of disguised what I had on underneath, I had to have gloves on so no one could see that I had nails on—but, I came to the realization that when I was out in the garage I lost a nail or a I skinned up my polish or whatever, I’m just not careful, I’m just rough. So there’s another thing, I’d rather just have the fantasy from time to time and not really go that far to be fulltime because I’m just careless and you have to be really careful, like you just pointed out when you scuffed up your nail polish and stuff during this project, so it’s not really something that I would want fulltime. I don’t know if that answers your questions, or…?
AMBER: Yea, I’m definitely interested in what you just shared and I keep thinking about this project in relation right, so I was assigned female at birth, I identify female, I identify as a Queer fat femme, I have bright pink nail polish on and it’s been fun to scuff it up. And I tend to scuff it up when I do Olympic and powerlifting which is something I really enjoy doing so I really enjoy as part of my gender you know, the range that includes this kind of femme presentation and also what it sounds like you would describe as more masculine tasks, right.
AMBER: so I enjoy all sides of that in one container so that’s my response to what you just shared, again not as a judgment of what you just said, just in thinking about how it translates to my own identity.
JESSE: And to expand on what I said that I don’t, you know I know my own sexuality, I’m not at all homosexual, it’s just the fantasy of feeling female. If anything, I am a lesbian in a man’s body. That’s what I am I think.
AMBER: Yea. Can you say that again? You’re a lesbian in a man’s body? Is that what you said?
JESSE: Yea, because I don’t, I love women and feminism, I mean female, anything female is so beautiful and so alluring to me, and I, I’m definitely a man underneath at all, like I said, I don’t identify at all as homosexual, it’s just that you know I like feminine things so if anything I’m a lesbian in a man’s body.
AMBER: I remember when we were doing that chat on ODC that we were recording, and you mentioned that you wanted to be reincarnated as a hot lesbian.
AMBER: And then I think I said I want to meet you in that lifetime.
AMBER: Um, so what would, I’m just going to ask a question that you can feel free to not respond to. It’s maybe a little personal, but I’m wondering if you’ve ever pursued I don’t know, this feels funny to ask you because we haven’t talked about sex together, but um, have you ever felt interested in dressing in the high heels that you described, and with the fingernails that you described and making out with your girlfriend, for example?
JESSE: I have heard about that happening and I actually thought no, that’s not really, because to me I am a man and that’s all she knows and so even if she did say that it was ok, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it because I think that would change her perception of me totally and it might make things a little weird or worse down the road, I don’t know.
AMBER: Well, maybe not her but somebody that was excited about the fact that you know you would be dressed in that way and you would be enjoying being dressed in that way.
JESSE: Yea, I don’t know. For me it’s just a fantasy for myself, I think. And it would be a little embarrassing I think.
AMBER: I understand.
JESSE: I think it would be hard to really hard to get used to. And it’s just I guess because I really don’t you know as far as porn goes, I never really did get into seeing two women. I mean, it’s ok and I can understand it, but it’s not, I’d rather see penetration of something real, you know?
AMBER: Oh my gosh, speaking of porn then if we’re going to go there, I’m super into porn where there’s either a transmasculine person and a kind of like, fat femme, and there’s penetration that way, or where there are two women fucking each other with dicks.
JESSE: Yea? Strap on?
AMBER: Yea. It’s so weird to talk to you about this, but I am into that, so since we’re talking about penetration, I’m super into seeing penetration, but not with what I think you’re describing.
JESSE: Well, what’s weird about that is that you asked uh, if I’d ever thought about sex as being dressed as a female and not that she’s ever said anything about me playing a female role or anything, but actually I don’t know, she may have alluded to it. She said that she had some gay porn, some men on a video. And I said, ‘Why would you have that? And she goes, ‘I don’t know,’ She said, ‘I like to watch it.’
JESSE: And I said why would you want to and she goes because I get it. Two, you know, at least they have something to penetrate and two men can actually have sex, two women can’t. And I said, ‘No, I can understand two women better than two men.’ And she’s uh, when we first started seeing each other she said she was going to surprise me and just pop it in one day and we’d have to sit there and watch it. And I said, ‘I don’t want to see it. I really don’t.’ And she’s all the time talking about putting something in my ass or something and I said, I don’t, I don’t really want to go there.
AMBER: Yea. I mean, that’s fair. You don’t have to go places you don’t want to go. But I think it’s really common for women to be into gay male porn.
JESSE: I don’t know. I, that’s uh, only the second time I’ve heard about it, so.
AMBER: She sounds quite open-minded in general.
JESSE: She is, and over the last, over the last few days she’s complaining because you know we haven’t had sex enough and it’s because you know she’s been sick and then I got sick. I don’t know She said, ‘It used to be every other day, or every day.’ I says, ‘I know, but you know…’ Um, actually when we were in New York it was just very stressful and we had a two room suite and her daughter slept on the other side of the door.
JESSE: And that made it hard so um.. Yea she’s really kind of, really kind of complaining that she isn’t getting it enough. And I complain, or I didn’t complain I was bragging to one of my friends at work that I get it every night. And I said, ‘I’m not kidding you, I’m telling you every single night we’re together.’ And he couldn’t believe that I was serious.
AMBER: Is it because that is not the reality for him?
JESSE: No, he’s been trying for, as long as I’ve been talking to him he’s been trying to find a girl and most of them, they like to hang out with him because he’s fun and they laugh and they have a good time and usually he pays for their dinner and their drinks and I think that’s all it is. But he’s gotten lucky maybe once every couple weeks or once every month or whatever and then he’ll come and tell me about it. It’s just funny.
AMBER: Yea, and then your report is a daily report.
JESSE: Right and I try not to go on and on about it but—and like I said here lately she’s been reminding me that I’ve been slipping a little bit. (Laughs)
AMBER: That’s funny. It’s also funny because you’re so…like, hearing that you talk about sex with the coworker doesn’t surprise me but I just see you being so sort of protective of Rhiannon at Dollstock so I wondered if you might be the kind of person who would just not at all go there. You know? Like, have a lot of privacy around your sex life with your girlfriend at work.
JESSE: Yea, I don’t talk to anybody about it but this one guy. He’s just, he’s just all sex. I mean it’s all he wants to do is talk about the—and he tells everybody too, there was a time where everybody was playing euchre at work and I don’t play cards but I’m sitting off at a table by myself with my computer and stuff and you know, whatever I do on the laptop and stuff, and they’re over there playing cards and my friend starting talking about his escapades and it usually is an embarrassing story. It usually, by the time he gets this long drawn out story about how the evening went it ends up he either didn’t get lucky or she, he played with her boobs and that’s it, or I don’t know. He’s always going on about all these things that’s embarrassing and then everybody will just laugh and I mean he’s just so unlucky, but he just keeps trying. You would think that he would give up but he doesn’t.
AMBER: Yea. Do you consider him a friend, or do you get turned off by the stories?
JESSE: No, he’s a good friend of mine, and it’s just funny because I like to laugh. He’ll tell me all his bad luck and stuff and it just, I have to laugh but you know, and that’s what I mean, that’s why I don’t want to brag too much because I don’t want him to not like to talk to me anymore because he’s fun to be around.
AMBER: Right, right, right.
JESSE: But as far as being protective and stuff, I think all men talk about their sexcapades and stuff but I don’t really. Like I said, I don’t tell everybody, I just tell him because you know, he’s just fun.
AMBER: Yea. Would he be open to hearing about dolls do you think?
JESSE: Uh, maybe.
AMBER: Yea. It’s funny because I don’t think of—I mean, we’ve talked about this at length, but I also don’t think of our community’s relationship to their dolls as particularly sexual, so I don’t know that it even makes sense in that context except that someone like him maybe really into the fact that they’re designed for sex, or penetrable in 3 orifices.
JESSE: Uh, I asked one of my friends years ago when I first bought Heather, I brought up the subject that they were making life-size dolls and I said, I said if you had a chance to get one, and said if you had one, would you have sex with it? And he said, “oh yea, probably.’ And then I just dropped it. I just kind of laughed. I thought, I was thinking to myself, well, I got one.
AMBER: You know for a time period when I was in transition between Chicago and New York my father had Amber Doll?
JESSE: No, I didn’t know that.
AMBER: Uh, yea I wasn’t sure if I told you or not, so anyway he’s always been really involved in my art work and followed along, and you know he lives in a small town in Iowa. And he’s just a rebellious guy in a lot of ways, and had fun with Amber Doll by dressing her in a witch’s costume and then putting her in the living room facing out and so just kind of used her as this decoration. But then he started joking with me that he was going to rent her out.
AMBER: And um, I still feel a little disturbed by it that it was even a joke. But you know she’s just never even been, or she was never penetrated.
JESSE: I was wondering about that.
AMBER: Yea. Um, my friend, Ollie Rodriguez, who’s another artist that I was in graduate school with, who was close also to Barbara DeGenevieve who this performance is dedicated to.
JESSE: And that’s the one who you went to the funeral and then the memorial to in Chicago?
JESSE: Oh, yea, I’m sorry to hear about that again. She…OK.
AMBER: Ollie was a good friend at the time that, and still is but certainly we were close and living in the same city when I got Amber Doll, and he did fist Amber Doll at that wedding reception performance that we did, but um, I didn’t know about it until years later, so now whenever I see him that’s all that I can think about.
AMBER: Yea. He put his whole fist in her.
JESSE: That’s bad. Well, some of the video that I’ve seen on your blog or somewhere, where, I don’t know, at the tailgate party or wherever? Where the guys were just really humping on her and stuff and I thought the one guy was actually trying to put something in her mouth. I don’t know. I thought, that’s you know those guys, I don’t know if you knew any of them, but they were pretty rude.
AMBER: Oh, I know. That was a lot of what happened with Amber Doll during those early performances. She was pretty violently explored for sure and I’ve thought a lot about that recently especially since Tilikum is such a big part of my life and yea. I don’t know, this week has been so interesting because for the most part we’ve spoken in the mornings and then I’ve had the afternoon to build and sometimes my mind is really focused on the task and that’s all I’m kind of able to handle, but other times I think about our conversation and just about I don’t know I guess our different relationships to gender and my what feels like deep understanding of where you’re from, having come from somewhere so similar and some of my feelings of isolation in the Queer community in New York, but feeling really aligned with the politics there and um, thinking more about the closet as a metaphor the way that you’ve interpreted it, the way that we’ve interpreted it together and then some of what it brings up for me personally and then I’ve been thinking a lot about Barbara who this performance is dedicated to partly because we met when I was 24 and I was making out with women like at nightclubs but I was definitely stumbling out as Queer. Like really interested in coming out in particular and didn’t really know how to do that and felt really naïve to um, I don’t know I guess some of the etiquette involved to the Queer community in Chicago where I was living at the time. And uh, you know I’d been involved with a woman in my sorority at Delta, Delta, Delta in the 90s and it still just took so very long.
AMBER: I would say partly coming from where I came from in Iowa and not really understanding, even though I was so liberal, politically rather as it relates to LGBTQ stuff, um, it’s still just didn’t feel like an option for me and I’ve been thinking about that time and it’s just about a decade of me being out as Queer.
AMBER: And understanding my gender in this very femme and fat way and really thinking a lot about who I’ve dated over these ten years and how important these relationships have been since most of them have transitioned to important friendships and yea, I’ve just had a lot of reflecting time as I’ve been learning how to use power saws.
AMBER: I was thinking about if there’s anything whatsoever that is left in any kind of metaphorical closet of mine. Mostly because I’m really interested in what can flourish in secrecy. You know that was some of what I was interested in writing about when we were going over the text for the performance. So I wonder what you thought about—I just talked for a long time—so I wonder if there’s anything you want to pick up on from that or just the concept of like, though, I think there’s like such an emphasis on outness in, certainly in my community and I’m wondering what you think might be some of the advantages or the sexiness or the appeal of some of the secrecy that involved with the closet
JESSE: Yea, I was, uh, I’ll back up a little bit. I was looking at your pictures on face book, and one of the pictures of the pink room with the doll closet door, someone commented that it was creepier than she imagined or something like that.
JESSE: I just wondered if—hold on, I’ve got to get my other phone. This one’s going to die again. I just wondered if—let me take my recorder with me.
JESSE: If the overall attitude about that doll closet being in the same house that my wife and I both lived in and I just wondered if the overall consensus was that it was creepy that it was right under my wife’s nose. Maybe you can expand on that or maybe I’m totally wrong about it, I don’t know.
AMBER: Yea, I think that some of the, yea, and I think you saw that I commented after that and said I don't find it creepy at all, that it’s really amazing to me and I think it’s really special and there’s something charged in the exciting way that you described being on stage in your old high school, that like, kind of thrilling thing is something that I connect to pretty deeply, so I felt that even being in the doll closet room and imagining that she was there. I don't think that, I don’t know and it would be great if we were on some kind of radio show to have her call in, right?
AMBER: And describe what she thought was creepy. I don’t, I suspect knowing her that it’s not the secrecy as it relates to your wife but instead the realness of the real dolls, right so the fact that that doll especially back in the 90s looked so much like a real woman, like an organic, and so I think some of the creepiness is the thought that something that resembles a human form so closely was living in captivity.
JESSE: Right. That’s exactly what I was just thinking she meant, but on the other hand it was, you know, I probably more than anybody um, realized that it’s just a fantasy and that, you know, I have thought about the doll having some sort of soul maybe but out of anybody that I know in the community, I think I’m one of the ones that doesn’t take it so literally and it’s just to me it’s just a mannequin, other than, well, Heather especially was just a mannequin.
JESSE: But, but, I’m going to back up a little and say that Rhiannon is a lot more than just a mannequin to me now since she’s so much more realistic and beautiful. But, the idea that I had just an object that looked like a woman, yea it was kind of weird maybe that, you might say captivity, but it’s not really a living being, so it’s not really captive. To me it was just in, it was a way to keep me from wanting to venture out away from my wife and to try to keep my desires in check and so that is a little more sane than, than what it seems on the outside to somebody, thinking that oh, he wanted the best of both worlds. Well, wasn’t really like that. I mean I wasn’t really, the real doll wasn’t real enough, there’s no doll in the world that’s going to be as realistic or beautiful as a real woman. So, it was just a fantasy or a way for me to explore my own sexuality without leaving the confines of my, or the, the relationship with my wife.
JESSE: So that’s how I would explain to her if I was talking to her directly. It was not really creepy, it was something a little more sane than what most men do. Because most men, well I don’t know what the statistic really is but most men that have an extramarital something or other, whether it be a doll or some cross-dressing fantasy life, they go out and actually have relationships with other people when they’re still married. I think that what I did was a little better than cheating on my wife with a real person because then, you know that would be a lot more hurtful.
AMBER: Yea, I think that some of the, well let’s just keep talking about that creepy comment—but some of the, in those moments I think that there’s the combination of you know the history of, really even just 2 major recent news stories of fathers locking their daughters pretty literally in secret areas of their homes. And, the generally held misconceptions about doll owners being misogynists wanting to fuck something that doesn’t talk back.
AMBER: Right, and so I think those moments where it feels creepy you know there’s also the color pink that makes it look like a little girls room, you know I do think that, I think all of those really powerful charged misconceptions come together um, in that one image that we were talking about just now that was called creepy. But also I’m thinking about the doll closet generally in this performance and some of what interested me in working with you was you know, I know and like you very much, and I know that all of the things that even my friends but a general audience would assume about you and doll owners generally people who choose not to be out about aspects of their sexuality, or aspects of their lives, people who choose to have some secrecy in something that is dear to them, yea I guess I just feel excited that our conversations may have shed some light on people making pre-judgments.
JESSE: Right, I hope so. And one of the other things about the picture was the left side of the door that goes to the room, the white paint, and there’s a lot of like dirty handprints or dirty, the side or the edge of the door is kind of dirty.
JESSE: And it, it was always like that because we never painted that room, since we bought this house. We never did anything to that room. It’s still the same pink from the teenage daughter that lived in there and the door was never cleaned off it was just left that way because we didn’t really have anything to do, it was just a spare bedroom or a place to put extra junk or whatever and so yea, that kind of looks a little creep too, it looks like maybe the house was an unkempt house or whatever stuff too. But you know, that’s just that one room up there.
AMBER: Well, you know, I’m glad that it looks creepy to people, and I know for a fact that it isn’t. And I enjoy being in there and I feel excited about one of the ideas we had earlier in the week which was to put a small piece of Heather into the doll closet before you drywall it out. So she can be there in some way and the other thing I feel excited about kind of in this category that we’re touching on now is that so many other doll owners have contributed images of their doll closets, or you know, I’m using that term but other people just talk about the space where they keep their dolls.
AMBER: So I feel happy that there’s a number of spaces where dolls are kept represented in this project and uh…yea I don't know I’m just interested to allow this work to be a vehicle for your self-representation and for the community generally so I hope that it’s felt that way to you, but let me know, what do you think?
JESSE: Well, I don't’ know if you think of me as such but I’m not really a spokesman for the whole doll community or anything—
JESSE: And like I said, I’m not really as into the doll life as some are and um, my story is just one of many different kinds of people that own dolls, but yea of all the guys that I’ve met so far there’s not been that I could tell I men, there’s not really one creepy person. You know it’s just I think people think we’re just all a bunch of lunatics that can’t get along in society so we buy dolls because we can’t have relationships. That’s not true.
AMBER: Yea. And certainly that’s proven wrong by the mere fact that we all have such strong relationships with each other.
JESSE: Yea, and I knew of at least one, and I don’t know if you knew this but I know you know his name but I don’t need to say it but he’s got a girlfriend also and she doesn’t know about his doll, so.
JESSE: There’s more of us out there that have actual relationships, but we just have another side of us that want you know, something else to work with. So…
AMBER: Yea and often that something else to work with is non-sexual. And has to do with projection of self on doll, or has to do with you know, some of what we’ve talked about at length, an interest in being the doll or dressing like the doll or having the opportunity to buy clothing and accessories for a doll so getting the experience of shopping for shoes on Ebay without um, without out doing it in a way that makes you feel comfortable, right? Like…
JESSE: Yea. Yea, I’ve had a little outlet by doing some searches for shoes and stuff, I mean that, I really have sat here on my laptop for hours, I mean I’ve sat here a couple nights in a row when I felt the need when I wanted some shoes for the doll or myself, I sat here for 4 hours probably two nights in a row deciding what shoes I wanted and trying to find the right ones on Ebay or you know or brand new shoes, which some of them are pretty expensive and some of them are decent reasonable and at one time I thought, I had the money and I was going to buy some nice pretty expensive shoes for what they were going to be used for, for Rhiannon. I wanted to buy something from Gwen Stefani’s collection, or one of the top, top or higher end designers that—
AMBER: Wait, sorry to stop you. But that Gwen Stefani, um, the Lamb line?
AMBER: Oh my gosh, I like that Lamb line.
JESSE: Mm’hm. And I thought, you know I had the money at the time and I thought it would be really cool to have some of her shoes, not to, again, not that I would tell anybody unless maybe you came around to Dollstock or something and said, ‘Wow, those are Lamb shoes.’ Yea? But, yea, they’re like 300 dollars or more, some of them.
AMBER: Yea. Um, do you have buy yourself matching shoes with Rhiannon, like I used to do with Amber Doll?
AMBER: You do?
AMBER: Do you have any that you want to share a picture of?
JESSE: Um, I don’t know if that, what, like not right now I don’t. I don’t even have pictures but the ones that she was shipped in um, the little purple sandal prom shoes that she was shipped in I bought a pair like that and obviously the strap around the heel wasn’t long enough so I had to buy another pair just to cut the strap off and superglue it to the other one just so it was long enough.
AMBER: You’re so good at building things.
JESSE: But yea, I mean it, it wasn’t the same thing. Some of that stuff I thought would be really fun and cool, but I was disappointed. So yea these little prom shoes and whatever, it, it’s best kept to Rhiannon because it’s just you know, like I said it’s for my eyes only but it’s not, it wasn’t as fun as I thought it would be. So a lot of that stuff I keep for a few years and never play with it again, I just throw it out or whatever.
AMBER: I know what you mean because when I first got Amber Doll there were things that I thought would feel really powerful or fulfilling about our relationship or about items you know, kind of objects that would exist between us, and some of them, I don’t know it surprised me what was and wasn’t after all.
AMBER: Yea. But I would love to see if you were able to today, and wanted to share, a picture of the shoes you know, um, that match.
AMBER: Obviously that’s up to you. I don’t want to push you in anyway, but I’m curious you could also just send it to me if you didn’t want them to be shared.
AMBER: But I wondered if that was the case mostly because I get it. I get, I get it to the extent that it’s possible um, the projection to self on doll you know having gone through it with Amber Doll and having had those issues myself.
JESSE: Yea, it’s kind of fun, um, yea I have a bunch of different shoes that maybe I’ll get out. You know, if I don’t send them today I’ll send them to you.
AMBER: Well, gosh I have so much building to do today but I’ve been enjoying chatting with you from the beginning of the stream instead of an hour into it today.
AMBER: Is there anything you want to add because you’re going to get off to work, and I'm going to get off to building and even if we’re able to Facetime briefly with questions, I just want to make sure that if there’s anything you wanted to add for this performance, you know we’ve had 8 conversations now, anything hat we’re forgetting to say?
JESSE: Um, I don’t think so, but you know it comes to mind something that I said last year for the Lolita project is one of the things was um, and I noticed this of most of the other, I mean all of the doll owners that I’ve experienced at some of the meets we were at, we all take such care, and we have fun dressing them up and brushing the hair and mine has real eyebrows so I have to smooth out the eyebrows and eyelashes and all this stuff is something that um, like you said when I was talking to you on the phone last year that it’s a sign that we are, we’re caring and we want something that we can take care of or love, or I can’t remember what you said, not relish but—
JESSE: It wasn’t even cherish. (Groans) But the word that you picked, it summed it up. You know, something beautiful, something, I can’t even think of it right now but just to sum it all up, most doll owners have a doll mostly because they want something beautiful to take care of and the word escapes me but, my point is, contrary to what people think, we’re not just a bunch of heathens jumping on a rubber doll or something because that’s not what most of the guys I’ve experienced are like, at all.
JESSE: So, if anything comes from this, I hope that maybe people see that there is, there’s a need that’s being addressed, a need that we have as far as loving and taking care of something—oh wow, the word was just there, and now it’s gone. You’ll probably find it.
AMBER: Yea, I can find it from going through last year’s footage for sure.
JESSE: Yea. And there’s that need where for whatever reason most of these guys don’t have, most of us in this community don’t have that in our lives where they’re actually taking care of something and I guess, to sum, to, to, make one more reference to my wife when she was in the hospital, when she was dying and I turned to my dad and when we both realized when she was on her death bed that she needed me more than ever, she wanted me right there to the very end, and I had tears in my eyes, and I said to my dad, I said, all these years that we were apart and we weren’t close, my wife and I, I said all I ever wanted was for her to want me and lean on me to want me to take care of her and I finally got to do that. And, I think that’s what’s missing in a lot of people’s lives and that’s why they choose to have a doll rather than a total relationship.
AMBER: And how would you summarize why you have a doll?
AMBER: We’ve been talking for 8 days about this and there’s a lot of reasons and a lot of nuance to it, but if you were to have the chance just to sum it up, what would you say?
JESSE: Well, usually when you sum something up you make one generalized point about it and I can’t because there’s more than one reason. There’s the fact that I use a doll to project my fantasy life or my desire to have or to dress in or to even look at lingerie on a body and you know, just the nice feminine things, I like that stuff, I like to take care of it, I like to take attention to detail either when I put it on, or when I put it on a doll, and more often now since I have Rhiannon I’m dressing a doll and I just living like you said I’m projecting my fantasy on to her and it’s more fulfilling to see it in front of me than it is just to see it from my eyes on my body. ‘Cause I don’t like looking in the mirror when, if I’m dressed up, I just like to see it on a body. Or, you know, there’s that, or like I said there’s just said the caring, and the taking care of something, and the…just being able to take care of something precious I think is the word you said.
AMBER: Precious. That makes sense.
JESSE: And as far as sex goes I think to me that’s the least of any of it so because for me it’s just not really that exciting. You know, sex with a doll, but I mean, there is that if I want that. So having a doll is like three of things. Well, there’s like there’s the sexualness of it, and there’s the fantasy of being able to project myself on it, and then there’s the care aspect of wanting to take care of something precious.
AMBER: Yea, and then can I ask a clarifying question about seeing the lingerie on a body? Is it specifically a body that represents you?
JESSE: I think so. And like I said I don’t look in a mirror, and I don't want anybody, it’s not what--if and when I would dress up, it’s not that I think I look good or I want people to see it, or you know like I said I did have one picture that was blurry that actually looked like I was a female. That’s when I was just playing around when I bought a new camera and I thought ‘what if” but, no, for seeing like long legs and when I used to shave and do my toenails and whatever, I mean, from my eyes and from my perspective I was seeing what a female sees, and that’s the closest I can get to being a female without actually going all the way, you know. And I didn’t want to go all the way, I still like being who I am, so, uh, that’s what I meant, projecting that onto her where—
AMBER: And I know you were saying at one point at Dollstock that uh, Rhiannon is kind of your ideal. Right, so like--
AMBER: So if you were to be a woman, it would be her that you would choose to be.
JESSE: It would just be so cool if in the future we could put all of our sensory, all of our perception and all you know, our 5 senses if we could put them somehow onto a doll, and live as that doll. I mean, not really, kind of, it would be really neat.
AMBER: It would be really neat. You know what’s so funny I’m reminded that a couple months ago, I have a good friend Tina Zavitsanos who is another artist, and um, we talk a lot about each of our work, and on the same night we had dreams that involved each other, and her dream that involved me, I hope she doesn’t mind me sharing this but she’s talked about it publically at a dinner party so, I’m going to go for it. She dreamed that basically like she was inside of my body as, kind of like a game, right, kind of like a video game and she was cruising the halls of her high school, you know it was her mind and—
AMBER: Being, but inside of my body. And um, my dream was basically that I was laying on top of her and I was being hypnotized and there was more to it that I don’t recall at this moment, but it was a pretty long and specific dream, so it felt like—
JESSE: That’s weird.
AMBER: We connected in dream space. And I thought a lot about, it’s so funny that you bring this up today because I thought a lot about her dream right, when we talked about putting cameras in Rhiannon’s eyes.
AMBER: Yea, I think that’s a fantasy or an idea that um, is charged for a lot of us. That seems interesting to a lot of us and not just in a Sci-fi way.
JESSE: That’s really wild that it happened at the same time, you were both thinking about it and maybe, maybe you were abducted by aliens than actually put through that. (Amber laughs) I don’t know.
AMBER: Are you teasing?
JESSE: Maybe. Who knows? No one knows everything, so. My sister was telling me a story about when she was growing up she woke up in the middle of the night and her-- no her sister said she saw it, my half-sister said she saw three guys hovering above her bed but all you could see were their faces.
JESSE: And, she told her, my sister about it later and my sister started remembering something that she was repressing from her childhood and she said she remembers somewhere that she wasn’t supposed to be, in the middle of the night.
AMBER: This is your sister and your half sister talking.
JESSE: Yes. So you know I never doubt stuff because no one knows for sure.
AMBER: Yea. Wow, was that in Ohio?
JESSE: Yes. And as a matter of fact, the same town that they grew up in just recently had a UFO sighting.
AMBER: I think that—
JESSE: A couple of weeks ago.
AMBER: I’m sorry, I’m kind of interrupting here, but I just feel excited coming from another corn state, isn’t there some statistic about how the highest number of sightings, or the highest number of sightings of UFOs or uh, anything extraterrestrial come from corn states?
JESSE: Yea. And I think I heard that the gist was that there, the people that are reporting these have no lives and they’re just a bunch of hillbillies seeing UFOs. And I thought that was funny too.
AMBER: Well, I don’t consider you a hillbilly, and I don’t consider myself a hillbilly—
JESSE: No, but—
AMBER: And we’re both from um…
JESSE: Maybe the word was redneck. I don’t know. ‘Cause there is probably a difference between hillbillies and rednecks but it just all kind of meant the same thing. Whoever said it was slamming the people who were seeing UFOs in those states.
AMBER: Well, as people from those states, I don’t know, I have no comment but I’m just so thrilled that we’ve been able to talk the way we have to the extent that we have all week.
JESSE: Yea, me too.
AMBER: Yea, and uh, it seems like a funny place to land on, to land on—
AMBER: Corn states. But it’s a bonding thing.
JESSE: Yea, I just uh, I don’t know, I don’t doubt anything anymore, but yea, I’ll believe about anything. But uh, maybe that’s what they meant, whoever said that, made that comment because they think we’re all naïve but yea, anyway.
AMBER: So now what’s your day like, you’re feeling a little better, you’re going to head to work.
AMBER: You’re maybe going to before work head up to the bins and grab those purple shoes if you can.
AMBER: And then, I don’t know, is it possible--what do you think you’re day will be like if I have some major question, would you be open to some text messages?
JESSE: Definitely. Yesterday I didn't’ have to do anything so…
AMBER: Awesome. Oh yea, you had that Christmas dinner, how was that?
JESSE: Oh, it was pretty bad.
JESSE: Well, every year and you know it's a big company that I work for, so every year they usually have a band in the cafeteria, and it’s a big cafeteria, they have a band over in the corner, playing Christmas songs and they have Christmas dinner catered in and it was, you know you get your fill and it was good and there was a lot of you know, fellowship and everyone’s sitting in the cafeteria talking to each other, you sit and talk to people that you hardly even know or you haven’t seen in awhile. Um, last night when they designated the time for our department to go, there were maybe 15 people up there in the cafeteria and there was no band.
JESSE: And they just played piped in Christmas music, Frank Sinatra and some oldies and stuff and on the video screens, because the cafeteria kind of doubles as a conference room, part of it anyway, on the big screens they had a laptop hooked up to each one of the screens with a fire, a virtual fire on each one of the screens, so…
AMBER: What did you think of that? I kind of like those, but…
JESSE: Yea, but when I went to get some more, they, they had some Styrofoam cups that were only half full of punch or lemonade or ice tea, when I went up to get another ice tea I walked past one of those screens and I put my hands up and rubbed them together like I was feeling the warmth. And the catering company let you put everything that you want on your plate except for the meat. When it came to the meat at the end of the table, they had a server there placing whatever piece of meat, or whatever size, or whatever amount they wanted to give you so you didn’t go overboard. And they only let you take one piece of pie, and it was just a disappointment. I mean, it was good enough tasting food, but instead of a salad this year we got coleslaw, so, yea, they, and everybody sat in corners and…
AMBER: Yea. Well, from what you described of last year and years prior it does sound a little different. Was it still barbeque chicken?
AMBER: Oh. That sounds good.
JESSE: And a little bit of barbeque pork.
JESSE: But years ago I was told that the talented people that were in bands and whatever, they would load them up on a wagon, and pull them all through the plant um, on one of those electric Cushmans, pull the wagon on one of those Cushman carts and they would stop at every one of the assembly lines and plug in and they would play some Christmas music.
AMBER: That’s cool.
JESSE: Yea. They used to do that and now they don’t do that, they just hire a band in and they all stay up in the cafeteria. And they, they have some volunteers from the, whatever shift you’re on will be Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus and this year they just walked around and passed out candy canes and yea.
AMBER: Yea, so a little different.
JESSE: More and more disappointing.
AMBER: Well, two different holiday get togethers, or work dinners in the last ten days, right?
JESSE: Yea. One was departmental, and the other one was plant-wide.
AMBER: Yea, so now those are done and your birthday’s done and today’s the last day of the performance.
AMBER: And we’ll definitely stay in touch like we always do but…
AMBER: But have a good day in the meantime and I don't know, I feel a little—
AMBER: Well, there’s still a lot to do, but um, I just um, I don’t know we’ve been in this kind of this alternate reality that is Doll Closet, the performance and we’re almost to the other side, so…
AMBER: We’ll have to text each other through it.
JESSE: OK. Yea, I’ll definitely be there if you need me, so.
AMBER: All right.
JESSE: Yea, I was surprised that the Facetime worked because you have to have Wi-Fi for that to work and apparently, one of the departments that I’m close to has wireless and even though I didn't have a password for it, it still worked, so I was surprised.
AMBER: That’s awesome. Well, that’s really good news because that was really great yesterday.
JESSE: Yea, it, it lost connection a couple times, but it was helpful.
AMBER: Yea, totally, and it’s fun to see your face.
AMBER: All right, well have a good day, Jesse. We’ll talk soon.
JESSE: All right. Good luck.
AMBER: Thanks, bye.
Doll Closet: Day Seven
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
Jesse Call-in Transcription
(timecode from Streaming Footage Part One)
JESSE: Hi. I wonder what happened?
AMBER: I don’t know, but I’m glad that we’re connected now.
AMBER: How’s it going today?
JESSE: Good. I’m going to have to mute the TV; I still have it up pretty loud.
AMBER: Oh, ok.
JESSE: Have to go back downstairs. Yea, it didn’t even ring in here.
AMBER: That’s so odd, because I have your phone number now, your ground-line, obviously I have your cell.
AMBER: But, I have the ground-line in a note in my iPhone. So, I’ve just been trying from there but it does seem like on the 4th ring it does go through to you. Or rather, the 4th try. Who knows? Who can know?
JESSE: So how’s it going?
AMBER: It’s good. You want to hear like a status update of where things are?
AMBER: So the trim, the door molding fits exactly on the left-side—
AMBER: So that’s good news. And it’s painted and the floorboard has got the 2nd coat of paint, so I’ll probably just do one more to both of those categories of trim. The 2x2 frame is all set with it’s new 1/8” rods, and it’s setting now with its—
AMBER: Superglue. And the 2x2 um, pieces that are 6 and ½ are now mounted to the 2x2 frame, and the 6203 or whatever that is bearing nipple is mounted on you know half on the 6” piece and half on the frame itself. But not screwed all the way in, the way that you recommended.
AMBER: So that seems all set and then also the 2x2 frame is drilled into the plywood, just with 4 screws.
AMBER: And not with anymore. And, everything fits inside itself so the 2x2 frame fits inside of the 2x4 frame with the ½ and inch on the left side, and um, I do see that because the whole issue from the beginning was the top being wider than the bottom, my—now that I have it laid down—my circular saw cut on the right hand side of the plywood is pretty choppy, so I got some sandpaper board and I'm just going to kind of smooth out some of those parts, and it will just be a little—
AMBER: It’s not off, it just clearly looks like it’s not a straight line. It was supposed to be a diagonal line, but it’s just like a choppy one, so that’s not very satisfying, but I’ll try to fix it as best as possible.
JESSE: OK. Um, one thing I noticed when you’re drilling, when you’re screwing a drywall screw in, it seems like the bits slipping a lot, and I don’t know if you have something, like you push it, you push the door up against the wall so you can actually push harder against the screws so the bit doesn’t flip ‘cause it should only take a few seconds to set a screw in. And it sounds to be like the bit’s just rounding out that head of the screws. So it’s just jumping around, and also, I don’t know if you have another bit for the drill? For a Philips? Do you have an extra Philips bit, maybe one that’s a little bit sharper? That one might be dull also, maybe that’s why it’s slipping.
AMBER: I wonder if that’s just the way (ind) because that’s from many years ago—I don’t even know who in my family kindly gave me this tool set, and it’s kind of for like very light home improvements, you know so. I noticed a everything is a little weak and flimsy, so that, that’s a good idea. I’ll look for a different bit.
JESSE: Yea, a different bit, one that’s like a newer, sharper, because they wear.
AMBER: Ok. Because I do still have a few things to drill in. I have to drill the 2x4 frame into the doorway with drywall screws, and I also have to um, you know screw these bearings, or nipples all the way in.
AMBER: Ok, I’ll look at that. Maybe it’s in the toolshed.
AMBER: But right now I feel like, you know after we talk I’ll do one more coat of paint and then hopefully that superglue will be totally set. I don’t want to mess too much with it.
AMBER: And then, I think the next step is to take off the rectangles from the top and bottom of the hinge side with the circular saw, right?
JESSE: Yea, see if you can figure out where it’s going to, where the axis is, the axis point or how the door’s going to open. Yea, you’ll have to just use your head and figure out exactly how much to go down, and how much to go up from the bottom. It should be probably an inch and ¾ or so. I mean, just enough to clear that 2x4, which is only an inch and a ½ thick, but you know, you want to go a little bit more than an inch and a ½, so.
AMBER: OK, so most likely, you know, I’ll figure it out, but most likely it will be an inch and ¾--
JESSE: Yea, from the top and an inch and ¾ from the bottom. You just cut that much up into the plywood and then, right about I would say probably let’s think here, a half inch plus, maybe just another half inch so about an inch, so an inch from the center of where the pipes are. Maybe an inch away from that, you know, an inch further toward the inside of the door, go that far with that knotch and that might be enough. An inch farther than the hinge point.
AMBER: Got it.
JESSE: And I might be wrong, because the thickness of the 2x2 is an inch and a half. And then you’re into the bearing about ¾ of an inch, to the center of it. I think they’re an inch and half in diameter, those bearings. So, ¾ and an inch and a half is 2 and…uh, you might want to go 2 inches. It’s probably about 2 and a quarter. It isn’t going to hurt anything to make it a little bit more, you know?
JESSE: And then, I would save that piece that you cut out and make it all in one cut and don’t, don’t just cut little pieces. If you can make it all in one cut, and don’t, to get that rectangular piece out, save that and then you can drywall screw that to the top of 2x4 frame so that hole is covered. It just won’t be attached to the door.
AMBER: Cool, that’s a good idea.
AMBER: So, Jesse, I guess I do have a question about using the circular saw now that everything is drilled into itself, like won’t I be cutting into the 2x2? I just have to make sure that the blade doesn’t—
JESSE: You can set the blade to certain depth can’t you? Most of them have it so you can just set it down that it only goes a half-inch in. And it should be ok, even if you do cut into the 2x2 a little bit, it isn’t going to hurt anything as long as it’s not too deep.
AMBER: Ok, but my plywood is less than a half an inch.
JESSE: Is it?
AMBER: I think so. I’ll measure it.
JESSE: Yea, just make sure you can set your blade down so it doesn’t cut too deep.
AMBER: OK, then what would you recommend as the next step?
JESSE: Mount that wheel.
AMBER: Mount that wheel. So, I’ll have to rewatch the video. I did last night but for some reason that still gets me stuck.
JESSE: OK. Um, really, like I said yesterday, the hardest part is getting that lock cylinder together so it opens and so that it turns in the way you want it to turn. And in my video I’d say that there’s two key positions: there’s the lever—the lever should be probably be the same as the key. The key slot. I think the lever and the key slot line up. So that when you turn the key from 12 o’clock to 3 o’clock, the 3 o’clock position should be the open, it should unlatch. And when you turn it back to 12 o’clock, the slot is up side—or straight up and down and the lever’s pointing up. And then that should be the latch position where the pins are out.
AMBER: And just to state the obvious, I’m mounting the wheel, onto the plywood, I’m sorry, not onto the plywood, I’m mounting the wheel via the 1/16th inch rod?
JESSE: Well, you’re mounting it with a bolt to the plywood.
ABMER: Oh, ok. I’ll just rewatch the video for that part.
AMBER: And, I guess the part that confuses me, even in the video, and sorry to ask these basic questions—
JESSE: It’s all right.
AMBER: I really appreciate how patient you are with me. So, it’s like one of the rods goes down to the lock,
AMBER: and the other rod goes where?
JESSE: There’s, there’s just a bottom rod that goes to the hole in the bottom of the door for the lock pin down there and then the other rod goes over to the lock cylinder to turn the wheel. The lock cylinder is what turns the wheel from that third rod. And all you’re doing, what’s that?
AMBER: Remember how you said not to drill the hole in for the bottom?
AMBER: So like where does that rod go?
JESSE: It will go, based on where you mount your wheel it should be probably ¾ of an inch from the centerline of that wheel.
AMBER: Into the 2x2?
JESSE: Yes, in the bottom, and then if you mount the wheel so that the top rod is ¾ of an inch from the center point of that wheel, so from the center of the wheel you’re going to drill a hole ¾ an inch away from the center, for mounting the top rod, and then on the opposite side of the wheel, completely on the other side of the wheel, there’s going to be where you mount the bottom rod and so, that’s going to be another ¾ of an inch away, from the center of the wheel.
AMBER: OK. I think it will make sense when I rewatch the video and listen to this one more time. It just takes me a really long time to absorb this stuff, so.
JESSE: Ok, and then one other thing, I think it’s clear in the video but I’ll just say it right now, is the, um, I believe the rods, the top and bottom rods mount to the bottom of the wheel, they mount from underneath the wheel and go up and then the lever of the lock cylinder mounts from the top of wheel going down into it. (1:19:27)
And that’s just basically so the wires don’t run into each other.
AMBER: And then the other thing I wanted to just mention logistics, I went and got, well two more pieces of, I keep saying 1/16th inch, but it’s 1/8 inch rod last night, but I ran into it and tripped over it today and bent it again so I don’t need as much as 4 foot for the rest of what I'm doing, can I just use channel cutters, or the angle grinder to cut it where it’s bent?
JESSE: Yea, I would.
AMBER: What would you use, channel cutters or angle grinder?
JESSE: Uh, I don’t know. I don’t know what channel cutters are but I guess, are you talking about channel locks that have a little cut thing in them, or?
AMBER: I guess so. But I was thinking of just using the angle grinder if you think that’s an ok idea because I’m finally used to it.
JESSE: Well, that’s the best way for me. That’s what I would use, but also I saw one, when you first started using that grinder, something I would advise is, you’ve got to always keep in mind what way the wheel’s turning ‘cause I saw when you were cutting something the other day and sparks were flying up at you in your face, if you’d always keep in mind that the wheel, as you’re looking down at the grinder, the wheel’s turning clockwise, and just know that the top, the top part of the wheel, the cutting wheel, is going to throw things to your right. So, if you’re turning the grinder, if you’re holding the grinder in your left hand and you’re turning the grinder sideways, then the top of the wheel is going to throw sparks at the floor. And then that’s something that I found useful because I did actually get a piece of metal in my eye once and they had to pull it out with a magnet and a tweezers.
AMBER: Oh my gosh, Jesse, that sounds awful.
JESSE: It wouldn’t let me close my eyelid. It was so small, it was like a splinter you get in your finger but, and it set into my eyeball so far that I just felt something hit my eye but I didn’t think about it and then later on in the day it started to work its way out and I couldn’t even close my eyelid because it hurt so bad, because it kept scratching.
AMBER: Oh my gosh. Were you wearing goggles?
JESSE: Yea, I actually was and it went up underneath them. (1:21:38)
AMBER: Oh my gosh, well you have inspired me to always have sparks to the ground. That is so painful sounding.
JESSE: Yea, it was not really painful, well actually when you can’t close your eye and it’s all read and teary, yea.
JESSE: But I mean, it didn’t really hurt as bad as what it sounds.
AMBER: Ok, well that is perfect advice, I’ll definitely be following that advice.
AMBER: Anything else we should check in about now, technically? I haven’t—the only thing I didn’t get to from my list yesterday because I ended up, I don’t know if you noticed, my ended up stopping the stream at 4, ‘cause I got worried about getting to the hardware store. It closes at 5:30.
AMBER: Um, so I have not tried the lock out of the knot of wood yet, that was actually going to be on my list right before I cut the rectangles out of the piece of plywood. So you know, I’ll do that but then it’s basically like lock—well, I’m going to do a second coat of paint. Lock out of the knot of wood, or knot of wood out with the hole saw, then rectangles cut out of the plywood. I’m going to try to fix this. I’m going to send you a picture of the right side of the plywood. It’s pretty choppy. And then I’ll try to do some um, you know sanding just to make it look a little more diagonal looking. And then I’ll try to work on mounting that lock cylinder which is also involve using uh…the tool that starts with an S that goes into the drill? The s…
JESSE: The spade bit?
AMBER: The spade bit. Which is also going to involve using the spade bit and the 2x4 and I also have to, I got the correct hole saw for the bearings on the nipple saw, so I’ll put that into the 2x4. But basically, those things, it would great to get them all done today but, if I don’t, I still have all day tomorrow and painting won’t take long so.
JESSE: Ok, well, I from here, I’m starting to worry, because the lock cylinder is, and getting it lined up to the wheel, is one of the hardest part, because you have to really think. I edited a lot out of my video that I sent you because I was recording about three different takes because I was you know sitting there and playing with it thinking that I had it. And then I didn’t, so I’d have to start over again, and so if you could take that lock cylinder home with you, back and you put it together. There’s you know, make sure you watch the video, because I do point out in the video how to put it together, there’s a couple pieces that fit on there that inhibit the rotation and you can put, there’s one piece you can put in there that will make it turn 180 degrees, and you don’t want that. You only want it to turn 90 degrees. You know from 12 o’clock to 3 o’clock and you’ve got to put that right piece in there. And, it’s kind of hard to get together.
AMBER: Let me, let me go get it real quick, ok?
JESSE: (Whistles ‘Pop Goes the Weasel’) That’s my favorite song.
AMBER: Oh yea? ‘Pop Goes the Weasel?’
AMBER: That’s so funny, my grandfather used to sing that. That’s like, some fort of farmer thing. His name was Iyvl. OK, I have the lock cylinder. Oh, it’s not like a zip lock thing.
JESSE: OK. It’s funny, I whistle that song at my radio at work, and somebody else, when they answer it, they’ll finish the song.
AMBER: Oh, and they’ll sing the pop goes the weasel part?
AMBER: That’s funny. I’m notoriously a pretty bad whistler according to my family. But I think it’s just in comparison. My dad is such a good whistler. Oh wow there are a little—
JESSE: Lots of little pieces.
AMBER: Well, I guess I should save this bad because maybe I can also look up the instructions online.
JESSE: I can tell you which pieces.
AMBER: Do you want to tell me right now?
JESSE: Actually, it’s in the video, because yea, if you, if you would hold it up to the camera it would probably take us like 5 hours to say yes, no, yes, no, not that part.
AMBER: Yea. OK. Well, I’ll just watch the video and I know you go to work today, but maybe I could text you if there’s something that really holds me up.
JESSE: Yea, and something you said, you know using a spade bit on a 2x4, you know that spade bit for a piece of the plywood that you cut, I think it’s like 3x3…
AMBER: Oh, yea. Man, I forgot about that 3x3, maybe I have one that’s close enough.
JESSE: Yea, it’s in the video. I can’t remember what size it is for sure, but I think it’s 3x3. And you’ll take the hole saw down a certain depth in the 2x2, and then you’ll take your circular saw, and cut out from the other side, um, a rectangular notch.
So from the front of the door you’ll have a hole saw hole. And from the back side of the 2x2, the back side of the door, they’ll be a rectangular notch, and they won’t come all the way together in the middle, because you know, that would obviously ruin the 2x2. So, there’s just a little bit of 2x2 left that you screw the 3x3 piece of plywood with the lock cylinder mounted into it down in that notch. You’ll see it.
AMBER: Ok. I mean, I know you’ll say that I’ll see it. I have watched the video a bunch of times, but you know, maybe it just becomes more and more clear when it’s rewatched.
JESSE: Yea, um, the notch I’m talking about is the part where I take the circular saw and do a left cut and then the right cut on the right side of the notch that I’m making, and then I take the circular saw and I make a whole bunch of other notches in between those notches to make it week and then I take the chisel and I knock them out.
AMBER: 3x3 feet?
JESSE: No. Inches.
AMBER: Inches. That’s what I figured but when you started saying bunch of little pieces it made me wonder how big—
JESSE: Oh no, I’m making several cuts in the space between the left and the right cut of the notch that I’m making, 3 inches wide. I’m making a bunch of cuts in between those 3 inch pieces, or lines, and then you’ll have a hole bunch of stuff you can knock out with the chisel. And then that will make your notch.
AMBER: Well, I think it will become clear, and if it doesn’t I’m just going to give you a text. But, um, are you saying you’re a little worried that I won’t finish in time?
JESSE: Yea, basically because of the wires and you know, getting the wheel and the lock cylinder and everything, because that part, the last part is um, getting the lock pins and stuff together to work with the lock cylinder, that kind of takes a bit of experimentation, but I think if you see in the video what I do you’ll understand it.
AMBER: Ok. Even with, even with this afternoon and all day tomorrow?
JESSE: Um, I just was kind of worried that things weren’t, like I thought today or even yesterday you might be onto the wheel by now. But, like you said the paint and stuff won’t take so long so I shouldn’t be worried.
AMBER: Well, no, I really wanted to hear your feedback because you know I really want to stay on task, and it’s really good to hear your realism, because sometimes I get a little over confident.
JESSE: Well, that’s a good thing too but I, knowing from sitting here and seeing you struggle getting the screw in, it really shouldn’t take that long. I think you need to change that bit because it seems like it’s pretty dull. It should only take a few seconds to set a screw in, and then again I think you have to push a little harder on it, make sure it doesn’t slip. Because when it slips then you’re just chewing up the head of the screw and making the bit even weaker so…yea it’s just, you know, like you said it probably wont be that bad. The paint shouldn’t take too long.
AMBER: Ok. The other thing is, we’ve been stopping each night at five, but we can go as long as we want.
AMBER: So maybe I’ll just try to go as long as I can today and if not just make it a really long stream tomorrow. But, thank you so much as always with all this technical help. I guess I expected to—
JESSE: Your welcome.
AMBER: to need a little less technical support, but I'm so glad that you’re generous with it.
JESSE: Yea, because it’s wood, yea it’s, and I’m not that good at wood either, but it’s a lot easier than welding it would be and as far as stuff that you can learn really quick, I mean, the wood is pretty easy. And if you just, if you ruin a piece of wood you can just go by another one. It’s not as expensive as metal is. And its not as dangerous either, but.
AMBER: Yea, that all makes sense. Hey, how are you feeling about our chat yesterday?
JESSE: Um, I was drunk out of my mind what did we talk about.
AMBER: Nuh, uh.
JESSE: (laughing) Yea, I was thinking about it last night, it would be cool to look into what kinds of things are out there now with the electronic magazines that I used to get. There used to be some kits that you could build with miniature cameras, and I, I would probably expect by now there’s some Bluetooth radios built into the circuitry so the camera, the radio and everything is built in, so there wouldn’t have to be any wires. Everything would be inside her head.
JESSE: That would be kind of neat.
AMBER: Yea, that would be really neat, especially at an event, you know, at an event where a lot of people were interacting with her.
JESSE: And not, not tell them that, yea, not tell them that she could see.
AMBER: Yea, because Dollstock—although, people are really respectful of Rhiannon on a whole ‘nother level. I mean, we’re all respectful to each other’s dolls, but just some people are more up for their dolls being—
JESSE: Yea. And you know, it made me feel good when you stuck up for Rhiannon and, I mean there was some people who were wanting her to be more um, a part of the doll pile and stuff, and I, I’ve seen a couple dolls fall over and stuff and maybe their arms or hands get, maybe not stepped on completely, but you know, bumped or whatever--
JESSE: And I’m thinking, I don’t need that. You know, I want to take care of her, and then I sat her on the couch and one of the guys came over and said, ‘Well can’t you at least stick her tongue out and act like they’re kissing each other?’ And the one guy came over and pulled her tongue out and you said, ‘Hey, don’t mess with her.’ And that made me feel good that you were, you were uh, you know, sticking up for her.
AMBER: Well, I felt outraged. I was so, I honestly meant for that to come out a little nicer but I think I, I don’t know that I raised my voice but I was definitely a little sharp.
JESSE: Well, you know what I said, and it sounded like what I said was pretty dirty, but I didn’t mean it that way because that’s not what was going on, but you know, if anybody’s wondering, Synthetics, um, mannequins, their mouth, you can’t really pose their mouth to stay open and I was doing a photo shoot the night before and I wanted her, I wanted her jaw to stay down a little bit like she was talking, or like she was saying something or reacting to something I was doing while I was shooting the pictures. And the little thing that they put in the anal opening of them, they call it a balloon knot, and it’s about the size of a gumball, a big rubber gumball, and I thought, well, I’m not using that, I'm not really taking any up close pictures of anything, of anything sexual. So, I was going to take that and put it in between her teeth, and it held her mouth open. And it was perfect, and I need something soft because I didn’t want to put anything hard and big in there and because I don’t want the silicone to tear and it would, so I was being pretty respectful of trying to take care of her—
JESSE: And so what I told that guy, I said, ‘Hey don’t be touching her. You don’t know where her tongue’s been. She had an asshole in her mouth last night.’ I said that and I think they thought I was talking about me, but you know, I was talking about that balloon knot.
AMBER: I know. I know, because you then did explain but kind of under your breath that you were talking about the balloon knot, and that cracked me up. But, that whole moment because you know at Doll Stock, participating in that doll pile is always super interesting to me and sometimes a little exhausting because you know, it’s holding positions for quite awhile and as the only non doll, you know like, I feel it in my body. But um—
JESSE: You’re the most famous doll.
AMBER: There you go.
JESSE: Well, I don’t know, you might have a little bit of competition with Dotty though.
AMBER: Oh my gosh, Dotty. I hope Dotty and I can collaborate next year for my December performance. I’m trying to—
AMBER: Yea. I don’t know that Cred or Camp have been watching but, I’m hoping that Camp is into it, we’ll see. Anyway, gosh, yea Dotty. Anyway, I think I might have gotten just a little crabby. Like my knees were hurting from the position I was in. I was on all fours. And then, I think that’s when I switched to the other side. Because I saw the person who stuck his hand in Rhiannon’s mouth do it and I was outraged and really like, snapped a little bit. I didn’t mean it to sound that mean so I had to apologize but just everything in that little passage of time was like, you know, it went from being a sweet doll pile, but it’s also just odd in a lot of ways, but really fun like a tradition and a ritual. To then being like, I don’t know I guess being a little bit about consent, because he hadn’t asked your permission—
JESSE: No, and that’s the thing. I’ve never even pulled her tongue out like that like that. You know. I’ve never, I just didn’t want somebody’s hand in there, fingers in her mouth, and I’ve never really touched her tongue, I don’t think, you know.
AMBER: Yea. Well, as you mentioned, none of the dolls are really designed for that much action in their mouth. And their mouths do tear at the corners. If they’re not treated very gently, so it’s for good reason. But I do think that protecting Rhiannon, it’s also like protecting you, right? Like, we’ve talked a lot about your relationship and your desire and wanting to see through her eyes, even literally as we discussed yesterday, so. It felt a little bit like sticking up for you in that moment.
JESSE: Thanks. I mean I got that. I felt that. And you know it always makes me feel good that you want me to run your camera too, so. I don’t know, how’d that turn out.
AMBER: Oh, it turned out really well, just like the year before. I haven’t worked a whole lot with any of that footage. You know, it’s funny to do this now kind of ritual of dates, right, so last year at Dollstock I picked up Heather and Sidore/Mark II, in order to make the you know, Heather/Mark II, or Heather/Sidore/Mark II Lolita performance, just a few months later and then this year at Dollstock I picked up your door, or rather we took a close look at it in order to prepare for Doll Closet so I end up between Dollstock, which is October and November, and December when I have my December performance, you know, end up kind of not spending a lot of time with the Dollstock footage until you know, the following year. But the pictures this year were outstanding and also we just got so much more playful with the doll pile this year. I really had fun squatting Missy.
AMBER: Yea, like, um, as if I was doing weightlifting you know?
JESSE: I’ve seen those pictures, that was cool.
AMBER: Yea. And also that time lapse that you made was awesome.
JESSE: Oh that was, um, it was last year um, one other guy’s camera and he had time lapse feature, and actually it wasn’t a time lapse feature, I think it was just taking a picture every 30 seconds, and we took them all and put them in my laptop and put them in video software to do that. But yea, this year the iPhone comes equip with time lapse in the new software update they had so I just used that and yea, it did turn out pretty good.
AMBER: Yea, it was so sharp until you know, it ran out of batteries it did it’s job.
AMBER: That’s good to know that it uses a lot of battery to use that feature.
JESSE: Did it run out of battery? I thought it went all the way to the end.
AMBER: No, it ran out of battery right as I…someone handed Missy to me in order, then I squat her down and it ran out right before I squatted her down.
JESSE: Ok, I didn’t see that.
AMBER: Yea, but it’s just good to know for next year and we might go to another location, I hear, so. That would be great, and I hope you can come.
JESSE: I do too. Um, but we’ve kind of set a date for our wedding. It’s going to be about a year and a half. It’s going to be…let’s see…no it’s going to be just a little more than a year. February 2016. So yea, I won’t be married yet so we’re not going to live together until we’re married, so you know, it’s a chance that I could still get out and do that, so.
AMBER: Well, that’s exciting.
JESSE: Yea. And I hate to be sneaky but as long as I’m still living here and I don’t have the eyes upon every little thing that I do, I’m sure I could probably you know, load the car up the night before and head out and I mean, she’ll obviously know where I’m going, but I don’t want her to see what I’m taking. (1:40:29)
JESSE: You know, she just knows I’m getting together with some people that I met. I do have a good time every time.
AMBER: Yea. And it would be great to get Rhiannon out. And now that I’ve been to your house and I’ve seen how big your garage is and how possible it is to slide her from the rafter there.
JESSE: Oh, up in the loft?
AMBER: Yea. It’s so possible to easily get her in the car without anyone in the outside seeing.
AMBER: Yea, I’m going to keep my fingers crossed and maybe next year we’ll be working with some camera eyes, we’ll see.
JESSE: Yea, um, that means I’m going to have to start doing my homework.
AMBER: That’s right. Both of us.
JESSE: Yea. That’s another project I’m going to have to had to my list.
AMBER: Yea. You have a lot of projects, I know. You’re a not only creative but also very building and engineering oriented so we might make a good match that way. Um, anything else you want to follow up on? I’ve been reading the transcripts and thinking about how to kind of check in with you after we talk about technical stuff each day. But I really just enjoy when you lead the conversation and talk about what it is that feels good to you to talk about really.
JESSE: Yea. Um, I don't’ know I can’t think of anything that I was going to add today, but. Unless you can think of something that you want me to expand on, or…
AMBER: I don’t think so. I wanted to just think a little bit more on what you said yesterday that it felt a little bit like I was your therapist, right? That it felt good to talk about this stuff and to have a place to talk about it and I think you said something about you know, wondering if anyone would ever know some of the stuff you got away with.
JESSE: That, that’s the thing because a lot of times when I would go off on my little adventure, and it wasn’t like I was pushing it and hoping that I would get caught, but there was always that feeling of—I think that’s what made it more exciting knowing that I could get caught, you know? But, I never wanted to be caught, it was just that I was getting away with something, and I always had kind of grin whenever I did it and I got back home safely, and, and uh I always felt like there’s another one I can add to my list than I can, but you know, say that I did. But, I was always grinning because I though, who am I going to tell?
JESSE: But I always wanted maybe some day get it off my chest, some of the adventures that I did, some of the things I dared to do. But you know. (1:43:21) Now I got, I guess I’ve got another one that’s exciting. I went to a parking garage in one of the bigger towns close to here that has big buildings and stuff and there’s a parking garage and I went clear up to next to the top level, the top level is obviously not enclosed so any body from an adjacent building can see onto it, but you know I did, I did get dressed up and whatever on one of the top levels and walked around. So, that was another thing, I was in a public place, but it was in the middle of the day when no one was at lunch break and no one was coming and going, so I got away with it.
AMBER: Yea, but there were people all around who could of.
JESSE: Yea. And the thing is, and I can, I’m sure that most men can attest to this, and probably you to, and the sound of just, and I really don’t have the rhythm, but just the sounds of hearing high heels on concrete is very, is a very good sound.
AMBER: Yea. And that’s been a big part of this performance, huh?
AMBER: Do you have any of the shoes that you have worn over the years in that purple bin that's over the locked part of your garage?
JESSE: Yes, I do.
AMBER: Would you feel interested in taking pictures of them?
JESSE: One of the pairs I had, well, I still have, but it’s uh, like the shoes that you wore last year at Dollstock. The black--I think they had a thick sole? Like maybe an inch and a half platform or something?
AMBER: Yea, yea. Oh my gosh, those are actually really uncomfortable for me to wear.
JESSE: Really? Those are my favorite ones. I like those.
AMBER: Awesome. I mean, in theory they’re supposed to be more comfortable because the bridge of your foot is elevated you know, to a certain extent so its kind of meeting your heel in a closer way than the shoes that are to the floor, but um, mine are just so high, um, I have an ex-boyfriend that gave them to me and they were his excitement, they were his preference—
JESSE: Oh yea?
AMBER: But I found them really hard to walk in. But that’s cool. Were yours as high? Or, are they as high?
JESSE: Yea, I think they must have probably a 4, 4 an ½ inch heel, but of course they have the platform, you know an inch an a half, so they’re probably only 3 inch. But you know I hit my head on the doorway and stuff when I walk around the house, but…
AMBER: Um, are you able to get that nice clicking sound up in the loft because of the plywood?
JESSE: Yea, but the thing is, I think the sound travels throughout the whole floor of the upstairs so I think that the neighbors can probably here if I do that. So, I was kind of paranoid.
AMBER: Except that maybe they think you have a hot date.
JESSE: Yea, maybe.
AMBER: That’s probably what I would think. Um, wow, well I’m so curious, and I was that day but obviously I wasn’t going to ask. You seem to always when you want to talk about something or show me something offer it. And also, we’re both Midwestern, there’s just a way to that, right?
AMBER: There was no way what I was going to ask to look in that bin, but I know you mentioned there were some of Rhiannon’s clothes and some clothes that were closer to your size. So I was just curious about, mostly because I love that stuff, and I love getting dressed up.
AMBER: So that’s when, on my gosh, I’ll just never forget that first Dollstock dressing Rhiannon up like, it was so fun to do it.
AMBER: Especially because I’m just so into her, and I know I’ve said that a couple of times this week, but um, she’s just beautiful when we put that feather in her hair too and then had the kind of like, flower, feather situation in her hair and um, she had that kind of white lacy shirt and she was on that saddle that was in the hunting lodge, that was really nice, that was a really nice like, I just had fun setting it up with you, but also it was a really nice picture.
JESSE: Yea. I was really glad that you took interest in her and I was you know, when we saw her in Synthetics at L.A. and she was just hanging there, honestly I was kind of disappointed because I thought wow, I thought it was feel better than this or look better than this but uh, but then they said, well she’s not finished. I said, oh ok. But, then there’s the fact that they got, they had some problems, they were, they had her hanging there for I don't know, probably 3 or 4 months before they even got back to her. And that, that kind of bothered me but, everything worked out well and I even made a comment to one of the guys, I said, look at that doll hanging there. They keep pushing her aside when they have to go behind her to get something. And I said, I think every time they push her she bangs into that table right there. And that ended up being Rhiannon but she was fine.
AMBER: Yea, I remember that really well. Because we had talked before hand and you said you know, well, I don’t know if it was you who said this, but I guess the year prior to Dollapalooza, someone’s doll who was attending the event was you know, almost finished and they worked hard to finish her for the Dollapalooza event just like as part of the open house, so I think someone said to you—
JESSE: That was mine.
AMBER: They were like, oh yea, maybe, maybe that will be you this year, so I think all of us were going to meet Rhiannon in our heads and then she was hanging there.
AMBER: But I have to say I’ve seen a lot of their work. All of their work is amazing.
JESSE: Right, I know.
AMBER: And out of all the work that I’ve seen, I love Rhiannon the most. I can honestly say that.
AMBER: Yea, I don’t know what it is, she just looks so alive and she, the freckles and beauty marks on the, you just did such an amazing job of picking all of the elements. Like her skin is so creamy and her freckles kind of accentuate that.
AMBER: Yea, I find her to be just gorgeous so, I hope you come to Dollstock next year and we find a way to work with her again, but yea, I just have to admit, it’s kind of unflattering to admit this about myself that I was a little curious about what was in that bin, so.
JESSE: Oh. Yep.
AMBER: Maybe I’m nosy.
JESSE: Well, maybe I’ll show you next time. But yea, I, I kind of wavered back and forth on the options and, and I cancelled one of my orders and started all over, and then…I don’t know, I think I confused Ronwen (?), or she was wondering why, you know, I kept changing my idea on what options I wanted and she helped me, you know figure it out. You know, obviously she’s always there for anybody that needs help if they can’t decide and so I’m really glad that I went with the beauty marks and stuff because I wanted, like I told you one day, I wanted something that was perfect. And then I thought, well, how perfect is that? That’s not perfect. There’s no such thing as perfection in anybody, you know? And everybody, everybody has some sort of flaw or a mark here or there that may not be very flattering, and I said, yea just scatter them: beauty marks and freckles. Not a whole lot, but I wanted, I wanted it to be as close to real as possible and nobody’s perfect so. You know what I’m getting at.
AMBER: Oh, totally and that’s some of what I love so much about her. Like, it’s also that she’s just so miles apart from the other dolls, it’s just, it’s just my personal interest. I know that. I don’t say this as a way to create a hierarchy, but my taste is 100% in her direction and it’s just fun to think about you twos relationship and some of how she functions for you and so, it’s all just a lot of love toward y’all’s direction.
JESSE: Thanks, I’m glad you like her. And that we’re working together um, maybe we can see how this goes with the eyes and stuff. And um, I actually threw away a lot of shoes and stuff that I bought awhile, you know, after using them a couple time and the effect wasn’t there, but whatever, I just threw them out.
AMBER: Well, what if um, what if you sent some pictures of Rhiannon’s shoes. Only if that feels comfortable to you but um, but I have that pair of red high heels.
AMBER: Which is why I chose these high heels for the performance.
AMBER: And um, yea I don’t know, I’m into heels and it’s good for me to know what you picked out.
JESSE: I am to and what if I just sent you a mixture of—maybe not today—but I’ll send you a mixture of different shoes and stuff and you guess whose is whose.
AMBER: Oh my gosh.
JESSE: But, maybe not side by side because then it would be obvious, but um, I also have to tell you that my brother and his wife, I told you that she lets him pick out stuff, you know, shoes and whatever—
AMBER: Yea, yea, yea.
JESSE: one day we were up in his bedroom and he was going to show me something on video that he had, an old TV show, or something that he bought and he opened up his wardrobe, and he said, ‘check it out.’ and he had probably six or seven pairs of heals in his wardrobe and another set under his bed and he told me that when he gets off work in the morning when he gets off third shift and his wife goes to work, he says he dresses up and sleeps that way. (1:53:39) I mean, not totally dresses up. But he’ll wear, he’ll wear some leather pants and some heals or something and wear them to bed and even when we’ve gone out to a car show, or looking for car parts at a swap meet or something, he’ll, he’ll have a pair of leather pants on underneath his jeans and he’ll start grinning at me and I’ll say, ‘what’s so funny?’ And he’ll, he’ll like undo his pants, he goes, ‘look.’ I said, ‘you’re sick,’ I say ‘why do you want to’—he’s always telling me you know, we, if I get pulled over by the cops or get in an accident, someone’s going to see that I, well for instance like I had shaved legs or painted toenails which I haven’t done in awhile, but he was always giving me some crap about that when he’s, he’s always doing something too, you know. But I think that’s kind of weird. He’s wearing two pairs of pants just for the feel of it. But that, that’s just, I was just trying to get some of the guilt off of me I guess by saying my brother does it too, but.
AMBER: Well, you know my stance, I don’t think it’s anything to feel guilty about and I don't think it’s sick, none of those things, but I do think it sounds like in a brotherly way you all have a little double standard, or he does.
AMBER: Wow, I am thinking more about the logistics of leather pants under jeans and yes, it sounds like a little bit hot.
JESSE: A little much.
AMBER: No, I don’t think it sounds like too much, not in a judgment way, just in a like, right now I have control top pantyhose underneath this like, pretty unflattering green suit thing, you know this one piece, and you know it’s like silk. I think it looks like something that Hillary Clinton would have worn in the early 90s. Uh, it’s a little short so like, you know, a little bit referencing you know, like overalls, like work outfits.
AMBER: But to wear the pantyhose underneath is really just all about the heels fitting better.
AMBER: I don’t know if you’ve experienced that, to put high heels on without panty hose, you’re feet kind of like just stick.
AMBER: But, you know, it’s better than last year when I was wearing control top pantyhose and Spanx with that dress, but it does take—
AMBER: Yea, but it does take just another level of intention to wear multiple garments.
JESSE: Huh. I was just thinking about the reason that we put pantyhose or stockings or even knee-highs on a doll because yea, it’s the same thing. You get the shoes on a lot easier and they recommend putting some short stockings or knee-highs on the hands also when you’re dressing them so you don’t smash the fingernails and stuff so yea, here in the doll community we all try to take care and learn stuff that we wouldn’t otherwise know about femininity. And uh, Camp was talking about, he was there, I think it was last time, but I think he was talking about looking on EBay for clothes and he said, he made the comment that we’re all a bunch of grown men getting excited about deals on EBay on heels and stuff and I thought it was funny.
AMBER: Yea, that was. He’s hilarious. But also, it revealed a little bit that I think he might be super into the heels as much as both of us are.
JESSE: It could be.
AMBER: Yea, well, in any case he’s into getting heels on EBay for his doll, so.
JESSE: Right. Yea.
AMBER: So that’s good. Oh man, I guess I should, I’m having an eye on the time and I guess with everything that’s left to do build wise I should get going. And you have work today, right?
JESSE: Yea I have to get in the shower here in about five minutes and get ready to go, so. I’ll be watching, though.
AMBER: Ok, well sounds good and I’ll text you with this locking cylinder if I can’t follow the video as perfectly as I hope to.
JESSE: Ok, that sounds good.
AMBER: All right, have a good day!
JESSE: You too, thanks a lot.
AMBER: Ok, bye.
Doll Closet: Day Six
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
DOLL CLOSET is closed today and will resume at 11am (EST) on DAY SIX, December 15, 2014 on livestream.com/amberhawkswanson. RSVP on the Facebook Event Page here: http://on.fb.me/1GmS4x1 for updates.
Doll Closet: Day Four
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
Davecat Skype and Jesse + Mahtek Call-in Transcription
(timecode from Streaming Footage Part Two)
Doll Closet: Day Three
Streaming Footage Part One
Streaming Footage Part Two
Jesse Call-in Transcription
(timecode from Streaming Footage Part One)
AMBER: Hi Jesse.
JESSE: Hi how are you doing?
AMBER: Good. You sound a little raspy.
JESSE: I just got over my cold. So, yea. Just my voice is probably still lagging a little bit.
AMBER: Maybe because you know, we’re talking for like an hour a day.
JESSE: Oh. No it’s all right.
AMBER: So how was work yesterday?
JESSE: It was good. I kept busy. It wasn’t too bad. I mean there wasn’t as many as the day before on my birthday so.
AMBER: Oh my god that’s right. Did you spill any coffee on yourself?
JESSE: No, I actually didn’t drink any. Oh, yes. I did. How’s it going with the build?
AMBER: It’s going well. I have a whole list of questions for you. I’m just right now posting on Facebook that we’re doing our call in. So let me just do that really quick.
JESSE: Ok. I think I only have like a half hour today because I have to finish that stuff I’m doing in the living room. And then get a shower.
AMBER: OK. Can I just jump into some technical stuff?
AMBER: So my first question is, now that—well this is something that we went over yesterday.
AMBER: So now that the door is 7 and a half feet tall, you know?
AMBER: Instead of six feet tall or eight feet tall, um could you just go over again how I should do the inside frame. So the inside frame with the 2x2’s, it’s like you said something about on the right and left I should have a certain space. And the top and bottom there should be no space, right?
JESSE: Yes. Well, what side are you going to put your hinges on?
AMBER: On the left.
JESSE: On the left. So the left side of the door should just barely touch the inside of the frame. So you’ll be able to see the frame, like the drawings I sent you yesterday—you’ll be able to see the frame on the left side because the door has to swing on the hinges and it has to pass that left side of the frame. I mean, it can’t be held by that side of the frame because it has to swing inward. And on the right side it should cover the frame so it’s hidden.
AMBER: So, that I understand. But I mean the inside frame, the 2x2 frame.
JESSE: Oh, ok.
AMBER: So on the left, I assume because the plywood is not um, covering the 2x4 that the 2x2 should be flush with the left side of the plywood. Is that right?
AMBER: OK, so on the left the two by two is flush.
JESSE: Yea, with the frame.
AMBER: With the 2x4 frame.
JESSE: You know I would leave probably a half inch gap because it’s going to—you know, even the outside of the plywood that you’re looking at if you’re looking at the door, there should maybe be a sixteen or an 1/8 of an inch gap. Just because I don’t know what thickness you bought. Do you know what it is? Is it half inch?
AMBER: Yea, half inch.
JESSE: Ok, well there’s going to be, it’s going to stand out a little bit farther from the center point of the hinge so there’s going to be you might have to, I cant really tell you for sure, but you might have make some adjustments for how it turns on the hinge points.
JESSE: Because it might still rub a little bit so you might have to do something about that.
AMBER: So there’s maybe like a 16th inch gap between the plywood and the 2x4 frame?
AMBER: So then you can see through there right?
AMBER: Oh wow, ok.
JESSE: And then, in my case, when the original door was put up in the room that I put the doll closet, the left side of the door was hidden behind some trim, the trim work that was around the door that you come in to the room with. You remember that door how it had the trim and there was a cross above the door? Well all of that trim hid the left side so when the door was closed the left side of the door came up against that trim. So, that’s kind of what I recommend in your case is, well I mean, just for this presentation I don’t think you would have to finish it like that, but I was going to say you could put some trim around the door way to hide that gap.
AMBER: Yea, I will because I bought some trim, um on the bottom.
AMBER: But, I have baseboard trim, but that won’t work, right? Like, what’s the kind of trim that people put around a door? Is it baseboard?
JESSE: No, it’s a fancier, curvier, it’s got more curves to it. So, yea.
JESSE: Just ask for window trim and that’s basically the same. I mean door trim, window trim-- it’s all the same stuff.
JESSE: And the inside of that, the 2x2 frame should be flush on the top and bottom, it should be flush with the 2x4 frame.
JESSE: Because you don’t want there to be too much of a gap between the locking pins and the holes that they’re going into. So you want it to be close as possible.
AMBER: Ok. And then what about on the right side? How much should the distance be between the 2x4 frame and the 2x2 frame?
JESSE: You know what, I think on the right side it should be flush also.
JESSE: And, uh, the left side is more critical. I would say maybe leave a half-inch gap.
AMBER: Ok, leave a half inch gap between the 2x4 and the 2x2 frames, and then leave a 1/16th inch space between the plywood and the door frame—
AMBER: And then get a closet or door window trim to cover that gap?
AMBER: Now I was thinking last night, I was in the shower just thinking about the door and um, I know that you never painted your door but I’m thinking of painting mine pink to match the wall.
JESSE: That’s what I would have done, yea.
JESSE: It’s just that I, I never I never really finished it because no one really questioned it being plywood but only a couple people saw it. But if anybody would have you know questioned it, and they probably would have expected me to put drywall in it’s place and no one paints the—
JESSE: Plywood like that. You don’t patch a wall with plywood, so, that’s why I never painted it because if I did, then I would have been ridiculed more for painting over the plywood than I would for just putting plywood up instead of drywall.
AMBER: Now, keeping it plywood just made it look like it was in progress.
AMBER: Yea. Well, I think I’m going to paint mine pink even though it’s not the way you did it because I’m in the mood to. I just want to see what it would look like all totally pink.
JESSE: Yea that’d be good.
AMBER: And I was thinking about, oh my gosh some pieces of Heather are falling. Are you watching, are you watching the stream?
JESSE: I am.
AMBER: In thirty seconds you’ll se it.
JESSE: The one hand or what?
AMBER: No, the small pieces of Heather.
AMBER: They’ve fallen onto the ground. I’ve got to pick it up. You know, it’s so hard to arrange all the pieces with the build. I want them to be present to witness the build but it’s logistically a little difficult. Maybe I’ll put them on this chair that I’m sitting on today.
AMBER: That way I can use my ladder chair.
AMBER: Um, ok. So, sorry I’m so technical today but I just know we’re limited on time and I want to make sure I make some doll door progress.
JESSE: There they go. Yea.
AMBER: OK, so my next question is, now that the door is 7 and ½ feet tall, um, will I have enough scrap of 2x2 to make those 2 inch long pieces, three for each side?
JESSE: Um, how many pieces of the 2x2 did you get?
AMBER: Four, like you told me to.
JESSE: Ok. I think you’ll have plenty.
JESSE: Because the door’s only what, two feet wide maybe?
AMBER: 37 and ½ inches at the top and 37 inches at the bottom.
JESSE: Oh, that’s bigger than I thought it was. That’s ‘cause the door’s so tall it looked like it’s a skinnier doorway.
AMBER: Yea, exactly.
JESSE: Ok, um, so…2 feet, 6 feet, and then there’s one, yea you’ll have some left over.
AMBER: Ok, so I won’t worry about that. But I wonder if now that my door is taller than yours was should I do four 2 inch 2x2s on each side instead of 3 on each side? For the pin holding?
JESSE: You can if you want to. I think there, what are they each 4 inch, or 4 feet long, each one of the steel rods?
AMBER: Yes. And I have two, and so I know that’s enough because I held it up and there’s still 2 inches of over hang.
JESSE: Yea but, um, 8 inches, you’re only going to have a foot, or half a foot left over. And you’ll need, you’ll need one that goes to the lock cylinder also. A rod.
AMBER: A rod?
JESSE: Yea. The rod that goes to the lock cylinder. It may be, yea it’s going to be longer than six inches I think.
AMBER: So do I need another rod?
JESSE: You may have to get another smaller, shorter one. Yea.
AMBER: Ok. So things I need to get at the hardware store is another rod—
JESSE: A hole saw.
AMBER: And door or window trim
JESSE: Mm’hm. A hole saw.
AMBER: I also need another—I’m just reminding myself of some thing that we haven’t talked about, but I need one more floor trim. Floor board.
AMBER: Ok, so that answers that. How many inches apart are the 2 inch 2x2 pieces?
JESSE: It doesn’t matter. I would just think what I did was just take the overall distance and divided it after you subtract the total width of the 2x2s so if you have four, there’s going to be 8 inches. Minus the seven and half feet, or however long your rods have to be. They might have to be—if your door’s 7 and a half feet than it’s going to have to be 7 and a half plus two more inches. You know what I mean? Because the rods stick out.
AMBER: On the top and the bottom?
JESSE: Actually that’s not true because the rods, the rods are incorporated in the 2x2 frame, so they’re not sticking up past the plywood so, yea that’s not true. I think your’e going to be fine with the 7 and a half and then that... You’re still going to need another rod just to make sure but—
JESSE: I just took the total distance that the rods had to be and let’s just say, let’s just say 7 feet minus the 8 inches from 4 of those 2x2s if you’re going to use 4 of them, and then divide that by what, what’s that going to make, 5 spaces in between them?
And then you’ll know how far to space them out.
AMBER: Ok, so I’ll do a little math.
JESSE: Yea, and the bottom one, you know honestly I think you can get away with just using 3 because the bottom, the bottom rod is going to be supported by the wheel that turns everything so you won’t need another one down there.
AMBER: Ok. So I’ll just use three. That will give me more scrap anyway. And I think I have strong control over the circular saw now but just in case then I can make a mistake and not have to get another 2x2.
AMBER: Ok, and then it looked to me like you drew in the tutorial video, that after you measured how far apart the 2x2 2 inch pieces were, that you used the carpenter’s square to draw with the pencil all the way across?
AMBER: Is that right? Just to be like triple sure that they’re measured on each side.
JESSE: Well, you just want to make sure that they’re square because if they’re not square and you’ve already drilled a hole through all 4 of them, or all 3 of them, that’s got to be--just use 3 because your drill bit won’t go through 4 of them at a time anyway, so, and it might not even go through 3 at a time—you want the hole to be square and you also want the edges to be square because when you’re screwing that up to the one side 2x2 you want the holes to be square and parallel to the sides or the wires will get stuck in there.
AMBER: Right. That’s a good segway to my next question which is I feel confused about the part of the tutorial where you—and now, you’ll see in 30 seconds what I’m holding up, which is just the pin—
AMBER: The rod I mean. But you also call it a pin. So, now I have my drill bit set, which is the Crayola set up that we talked about and then you picked a drill bit that is smaller than the rod right?
JESSE: No, a little bit bigger than the rod.
AMBER: Oh, bigger than the rod.
AMBER: Ok, but the thing is like the one that’s a little bigger than the rod is so short, how can it possibly go through three pieces?
JESSE: It won’t. That’s the problem I ran into also. You can go through maybe two.
JESSE: And, but if not, you’ll at least go through the top one and then make a hole in the next one down that you can, so you know where to start. Then you take that top one off and drill all the way through the next one down and…Just as long as the holes are all pretty much in the same spot in each one of the 2x2 pieces.
AMBER: Ok. Well, this is super good. So now my next question is um, you said to rough up the metal a little bit on the ends?
JESSE: Just the ends that you have to put into that long spacer. You have a long spacer that’s about ¾ of an inch, maybe an inch long, and you want to rough up the edges of the rods, the you know pieces of round stock so that the super glue that you’re going to put into that spacer, so that it has something to adhere and lock into when it’s set--
AMBER: Are you talking—Sorry, can I interrupt you for a second?
AMBER: Are you talking about the nylon spacer?
AMBER: Ok, so the only part of the metal that gets roughed up is the part that goes inside the nylon spacer?
JESSE: Yea, the long one.
AMBER: So, hold on, I have a 1-inch long one, is that the one you mean?
JESSE: Yes. And all the rest of them are just the small pieces.
JESSE: The, the smaller ones are just there to lock into that wheel, you’ll be able to press them on, they’ll fit firm enough to lock into that wheel.
AMBER: Ok, now I’m holding up a wheel. It’s the one that you gave me at your house.
AMBER: That’s what you mean, right?
AMBER: Ok, then the way that I rough up the metal is with this grinder?
JESSE: Yea, do you have a grinder?
AMBER: Yea. I’m getting it out right now. So I have a grinding disk for metal or stainless, that’s the one that I use?
AMBER: Ok, in 30 seconds you’ll see what I’m holding up, I just want to double check it’s the grinder. I got Milwaukee brand instead of Dewalt because, you know, it’s Midwestern.
JESSE: That’s good too.
AMBER: Yea, and I like the color red.
JESSE: There’s the wheel.
AMBER: Yea, so this is right?
JESSE: No, I was looking at the wheel that I cut. Now, the other one. Yea, that’s the right thing. Yep.
AMBER: Ok. Well, I’m also (ind) and it comes with a tote bag, so I’m pretty excited about that.
JESSE: Yea. Good.
AMBER: I think that’s all my questions. My goal today is I have to like, I did a pretty good job with the circular saw on the plywood, but the problem is, I know I keep talking about this, so I’m just repeating myself, but since it’s a little wider at top that it is at the bottom, it’s hard for me to make a diagonal line. I found a good tutorial with someone that I perceive to be butch and I was kind of into her. I don’t know if you saw the video that I posted on the Facebook—
JESSE: I heard her though, talking about how to use the circular saw and table saw.
AMBER: Yea, I was pretty into that video, so that was really helpful and um, then I also found another video of someone who taught me how to basically cut it on the floor and so that person said to use a like, to make a fence basically so I used some of the floor, or what I’m going to end up using as floorboard as the guide, as the fence.
JESSE: Ok, good. I saw that.
AMBER: Yea, so that was awesome but to make a diagonal was nearly impossible so I’m going to trim that up a little bit—
AMBER: And then I’m going to make the 2x2 frame, and then I’m going to use the scrap to make the 2 inch, 2x2 pieces, and then I’m going to put the holes in them, and then I’m going to screw them in the frame, and just test out putting the rod in, but that’s probably as far as I’m going to get today. And then, I have a really good friend who’s in town for the performance, and she’s out running errands right now, because we figured out that—remember when I held up to the camera what I thought was a circle saw and it is but it’s for a drill press, not for—
JESSE: Oh, a hole saw?
AMBER: Oh, sorry. A hole saw. So, she’s going to get a hole saw for the Dewalt um, drill.
AMBER: So then I’ll be able to you know, hopefully tomorrow early work on the um, work on the knot of wood.
JESSE: Yea, and don’t forget you’ll need another hole saw that—I think I listed there’s two different hole saw sizes that you need. One is for drilling down into the 2x2 to put the lock cylinder into.
JESSE: So you might want to have her get that too.
AMBER: What size should that one be?
JESSE: I don’t know I have it listed on there, somewhere. I think it’s like, I think it might be the one-inch.
AMBER: Ok, I’ll look at that again because I missed that—oh, I know what it was, because I sent that list to Watermill Center—
JESSE: Oh ok.
AMBER: And what they said is that they had everything on there, which they did except that that was the right drill press so I bet that they have to but they’re both for the drill press. Ok. So I’ll take a second look at that and then ask my friend to pick up a smaller one also.
AMBER: So I should write that down.
JESSE: And then the spade bit—you have a ¾ inch wood spade bit?
AMBER: Um, no. I don’t think so. So, two hole saws
JESSE: Well, just uh—
AMBER: Spade bit? What’s a spade bit?
JESSE: It’s for boring a hole through wood. (1:36:55) So that one piece that I cut to mount the lock cylinder into, did you see that?
AMBER: Um, I keep re-watching the video but I can only handle parts at a time because I realized when I kept watching the whole video, it wasn’t helpful. Like now I’m just breaking it down into pieces.
JESSE: Yea, that’s why I cut it into, well, actually you know what honestly I used to do is set up the iPad on Heather’s old chair, I set up the iPad, and I had wheels on it and I rolled the iPad to wherever I needed it. And then I did, recorded a step and then I ran over and stopped it, and then just you know, a step at a time. So, and I was thinking on my feet, you know, I didn’t really have it all planned out, so.
AMBER: You did so great, Jesse. I’ve been able to refer to it over and over. I’m so grateful for-- first of all can I also just say, I’m so grateful to be making this performance with you.
AMBER: It’s awesome.
JESSE: Well, I’m honored that you’re doing it and you know, like at work, I was sitting there looking at it on my phone, watching it and stuff, and I’m thinking, you know, I want to be there so bad to help you on some of the things you get stuck with but, it’s just, I just can’t really fathom, it’s kind of hard to believe that you’re in New York doing this thing that’s based on a thing I did years ago. Is it because you thought—and it’s a really cool idea, you know, it is like you said, it’s a way to bring out conversations on closets and things that people try to repress and it is a good segway into that and I hope other people call in Saturday.
JESSE: Um, I may just, you know, not talk about that kind of stuff today. I’ll just keep on--
AMBER: I understand.
JESSE: If you want to talk about technical stuff, but maybe later on we can get into that again but—
JESSE: Today I’m kind of pressed for time because I’m putting the window sill back on the bay window the living room, and then finishing up the fireplace, so.
JESSE: I’m kind of, I’m kind of being um made fun of because I don't have it done yet, so.
AMBER: Oh, I gotcha’. Well, I’ll let you go then it just a minute. I just wanted to say quickly, because you brought it up, but when you watch me on Livestream and you notice things that I you know, am struggling with, with the tools—
AMBER: Like I kind of understand how that feels, because I have that a little bit, just like a little tug, when you talk about nail polish.
AMBER: And like the, the press-on nails. So, I’m kind of like, ‘oh, I know exactly where to get those, that would be so fun.’ And we could do it together. And I know how to do that and I could help you and you know like, that’s how I'm imagining—and I don’t know for sure—but I’m imagining that that’s how you feel when you, and other people have written to be like, ‘You know that you need to like, pull your hair back when you use a circular saw, for example.
AMBER: But, I’m wondering if there’s a parallel there. I know you’re pressed for time, but maybe we can talk about that another time.
JESSE: Yea, I mean I have a couple more minutes but you know, I uh, it just, if you need to, or I don't’ know how, how you’re iPhone situation is, I don’t know if you have it on you all the time, but—
AMBER: Yea, I do.
JESSE: Like yesterday I saw that you were wondering why the plywood didn’t meet the top of the frame and everything and I was trying to say oh, that’s what you want. Don’t worry about that, and I could see you were kind of upset, kind of worried about it. But, um, yea it’s better that you cut it down to 7 and a half-foot.
AMBER: Yea, I feel really glad about that and you know, all we did was change—because you know, now there’s like 3 feet between the top of the closet and the top of the actual ceiling, but all we did was change the camera angle a little bit and—
JESSE: Yea, it looks good.
AMBER: It looks good in the angle today. It just isn’t continuous with yesterday. You know, I’m just a little weird about that stuff.
JESSE: Well, maybe you can crop the video a little bit in post-production.
AMBER: Yea. I mean, that’s not my end. The thing is, you know how I am with Ren, and he’s so good with that stuff and when he hears me talk about technical stuff because I use all the wrong words. Um, we have lots of inside jokes and he and I are laughing at each other right now. We’re smiling. It’s kind of like how I talk about tools. I’m sure you’re just rolling your eyes, but that’s how it goes.
JESSE: Yea. I mean, you’ll learn. If you want to, you know, you’ll get better at it. You might even be inspired to do other things with it so.
AMBER: I know, who knows what I’ll build.
JESSE: That’s what I’ve always been into, I like to—and my brother as well—you know, you learn by doing. We never, there’s no such thing as you can’t or you don’t know how. You just set off on doing it and then you get the experience and you do more with it later on.
AMBER: Well, you know, I really appreciated you posting on ODC today. I posted—mostly because people had already posted picture of their doll closets—and Ace gave me permission to repost his so I posted them on the Facebook event page and then I’ll post them on my blog. And I wrote some other people directly, but did you see those pictures that Cred posted? They’re awesome.
JESSE: Of uh, his space in the basement?
AMBER: Yea, I mean I’ve seen that space but what I really loved is the picture with the doll building the space.
JESSE: Oh yea and then Camp helping out?
AMBER: Yea, I’m really hoping that Cred and Camp call in so—
JESSE: Yea, that’d be nice.
AMBER: But Davecat’s going to Skype in and that’s the other thing before, before we go, we’ll say goodbye because then I know you have to get to the bay window but I wondered what time worked for you for doing a, Watermill calls it an open rehearsal, so basically it’s just open to the public tomorrow for two hours from 4 to six, so what time works for you to call in? I was hoping you could call in at 5.
JESSE: Is tomorrow Friday? Sorry.
AMBER: Tomorrow is Saturday, right?
JESSE: It is?
AMBER: Hold on. Let me see what day it is. I’ve been in this room. Yea today’s Friday so tomorrow is Saturday and I know you said weekends are harder for you but you could find five minutes or so to talk away.
JESSE: You know, if I can make an excuse to go down to the carwash or something I might do that. But, yea, what time you say, 4 to 6?
AMBER: Four to six, five o’clock would be ideal for me, but really, whatever time works for you.
JESSE: I’ll try 5 o’clock, if not you know, I’ll text you and let you know.
AMBER: Ok, but I don’t—I feel worried sometimes when I text you. I don't know how you have me entered in your phone. But I know you said your fiancé would maybe feel confused if you were receiving texts from someone.
JESSE: Ok, I’ll tell you a little secret.
JESSE: You’re name is Elle in my phone.
AMBER: Like “L” just the letter or e-l-l-e?
JESSE: Oh no, A-L.
AMBER: Oh, smart.
JESSE: Al. Al Swanson. And then I delete every text after, you know, I kind of like, I take a screenshot of it and I put it off in a hidden place and then you know that way I can refer back to them if I want to see what we’ve texted.
AMBER: Well, that’s so smart.
JESSE: Well, yea. I can’t afford to have any problems. She’s, she’s one of those who’s just worried about every little thing and anything my family says and stuff like that so. It’s just kind of, kind of got me worried. But as far as us, I don’t think there’s going to be any problem but--
AMBER: Well, so, I won’t worry about texts. It’s not like I’m going to text your face off but I’ll just text the check in tomorrow because we won’t have our—you know, we’ve been talking every day at noon but we won’t have our talk at noon tomorrow—I’m going to swap the order of the day where I build in the morning and then do calls at night.
AMBER: Or, you know, in the evening from 4 to 6. Even if I’m Skyping with Davecat, which I will be, we’re going to set up the monitor to do that—
JESSE: Ok. Um, tomorrow—
AMBER: Even if that’s happening and you know, and that’s when you’re available I’ll just call you in because you know, we’re working on a, or on my end anyway tomorrow, I’ll still be on my ground line even if you’re on the cellphone, and then I can still be Skyping with Davecat. It’s fine.
JESSE: Ok. So for the sake of audio and everything, I’ve been recording like I said with my iPhone off to the side here, but tomorrow I’ll probably have to call in with my iPhone because I don’t know where I’m going to be so, you know, I won’t have any audio for that day.
AMBER: That’s ok, because what we’ll do is if the audio sounds different we’ll just include some of the introduction that you’re like at the carwash, you know?
AMBER: So that’s no problem.
JESSE: All right.
AMBER: Aw, good luck with the bay window, and you know, go get showered. Is it snowing there?
JESSE: No, is it supposed to?
AMBER: I don’t know but it snowed a little bit here and I know that we’re just states away and sometimes it comes on your side. Like when I drove to your house, it was so sad to me to drive into the snow.
AMBER: Because we had gotten it in New York, and you are all just a little before us that way.
JESSE: And then on the way to New York we ran into snow in Pennsylvania. After that it was not too bad.
JESSE: But there was people going off the road left and right so.
JESSE: All right.
AMBER: All right, well, I’ll talk to you tomorrow and we’ll text in the meantime but I’m really excited to get going with this 2x2 frame.
JESSE: Ok, good.
AMBER: All right, have a great day.
JESSE: Yea, you too.